Your favorite Ilustrisimo technique

Discussion in 'Kali Ilustrisimo' started by Black Grass, Apr 12, 2006.

  1. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    Yes. We simply refer to this as fraile. However, your original post described it originally against a vertical strike to the crown of the head. And based on your description now, it cannot be done as both you and your opponent are running vertical lines.

    Ah, so you were one of the very fortunate individuals to have learned directly from Tatang. I guess you were there alonside Mang Tony, Topher and the rest. I will be sure to let him know you were his peer. Are you now training with Mang Tony or Romy?

    I absolutely agree. The art is still being discovered by many worldwide. And is appreciated for its simplicity and effectiveness. As far as the "Art" revealing itself, that is also often a matter of a students diligence. I am sure you can attest to this as most of you were left to dissect Tatang's methods in an effort to decipher the actual techniques.

    I have of heard him ever being described as such.
     
  2. Matt Lim

    Matt Lim New Member

    It can be used against any strike to the head. If it is a vertical strike to the crown then you don't have to use the initial vertical subida, you sidestep, livehand outside inward parry, sword beat/parry(lateral motion), and thrust. If its a forehand vertical downward strike, I use the cerrada version, if its # 12 then the abierta version is more apt, the end thrust will be #10. This fraile is smoother and less violent compared to the fraile that resembles a wide boca y lobo. The Media Fraile featured in mandirigma tapes were called Media Fraile I and II (I think). Not shown was the cerrada versions of both Frailes. Both featured Frailes had weapon passes but there are stop-thrust versions.


    I was there before sixto and basti, I was there when Morales was organizing the luneta group, I was there everytime Tony, Romy, Yuli, Norman, Vitalliano, Sioc, or Topher comes to luneta, I was there when murillo, took over training then chavez, batiller, alarzar, then raganas, but I was never part of any group.
    I am close to all that trained with tatang who live near his home and those who regularly frequent luneta but I cannot call myself their peer because I seldom practice with them. I am a mere student of Ilustrisimo. And if there is hierarchy in Ilustrisimo, then I am the least.

    I think it won't be too much to say that only the genuine students can decipher the true nature of the techniques. They are not just mechanical movements.


    Of course I was exaggerating.
    Salamat.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2006
  3. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    May I ask what your end position is on your "family of frailes"?

    And???? What is your point? Like I said, you were very fortunate to be a student of Tatang. Why even bring up the subject of hierarchy?

    And that is why I commented, "I am sure you can attest to this as MOST OF YOU were left to dissect Tatang's methods..." As I stated earlier, I do absorb "mechanical movements". I focus on principles.
     
  4. Matt Lim

    Matt Lim New Member

    Usually, #10 or #11 thrust... but against body and leg attacks, it could be # 6 or #7 thrust.


    At the luneta, you might find us fiercely arguing about techniques. Onlookers might see us as a hairline to jumping on each other but we're not, we're like brothers that we can afford to speak our minds without anyone feeling offended. We can argue because there is no hierarchy. It might be different to those who are not here in manila so I want It clear that we don't have any problem about hierarchy because we don't have it. My point is that I say my own expression or interpretation of techniques not as an assertion of authority but as a brother talking to another brother.

    Salamat.
     
  5. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    Thanks for keeping the dialogue up but yet, I am still confused with some of the methods you describe. I always understood that fraile was mirrored from the a friars hand position and movement, hence a vertical motion which can end in 6,7,10 or 11. Can you explain how the principle is used against such a low-line attack as to the legs???? It could be that you are referring to what has been shared to some of us as crossada against the leg attacks which a follow up 7.

    It is not a perception that "we" here in the States have since we are training with some of those individuals who were there possibly with you. i.e. Topher

    I guess I have been known to be very vocal. Possibly because there has been a surge of so-called or self-claimed KI players coming out of the woodworks. And I am not referring to you. Those out there know who they are and sometimes silence tends to make believers out of the ignorant ones. Therefore, I choose to speak up not as an authority but as a loyal stundet of the art. This is not an attempt to stir up politics but to honor Tatang and his art with more integrity.
     
  6. Matt Lim

    Matt Lim New Member

    It's not cruzada, cruzada has its own distinct motion. If you know how to apply media fraile against #1 then the low media fraile is the mirror image against #3 or #8. The end thrust here is #7. The slicing cut-thrust is very distinctive of fraile.


    That's good to know.
    I know what you mean, integrity is such a lonely word.
    Regards.

    Salamat.
     
  7. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    No favorites....I dig it all....
     
  8. media

    media New Member

    PG Michael B, as you are doing seminars throughout the country, what technique/concept is easily grasped by the participants and what is the hardest to teach?
     
  9. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    In my honest opinion I would say that Praction is one of the concepts that the participants pick up quickly. As far as something difficult is concerned I would say Pluma....just for the manual dexterity needed not because it is overtly hard, also proper lutang footwork and it's many variances in correlation with the strikes.

    The one thing I have found that hinders most peoples progression is lack of relaxation (I suffered from this as well)....it seems so many folks are worried about the destination as opposed to enjoying the journey. The key to learning is the ability to relax which allows for one to truly absorb the lesson at hand.
     
  10. media

    media New Member

    Is there any difference in the footwork of Bahad Zubu versus traditional KI?
     
  11. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    There is some...we use single carrera , doble carrera, hexagon (which entails the 6 steps), Lutang (with variance) and box stepping. BaHad Zu'Bu is a system where individual expression is applauded....we all have the same solid foundation but our homes will be a bit different due to the experience of the player and the abilities he or she may bring to BZ.
     
  12. media

    media New Member

    What role does your extensive experience in Silat and other southeast asian arts play in your personal Bahad Z. footwork?
     
  13. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Kamusta ka na Steve......Footwork in my humble opinion is the key to FMA....it all starts from the ground up. What I have learned from the Silat I have trained is that the footwork blends same/same with the FMA or at least the FMA I have trained, where Eskrima may cut a sharper angle, Silat may step deeper etc.. what it does for my personal interpretation is thus; it gives me more options to play with, I am able to get inside my laboratory and put together very odd possibilities that some may disagree with but work for me.
    Master Yuli is not a big proponent of cross stepping, but when he saw that I was doing it and very competent he realized that it was part of my personal interpretation due to the Silat I have trained, he told me that he doesn't like it but I use it very well without compromising my structure. My personal interpretation is very unorthodox to say the least but that is what makes BaHad Zu'Bu Eskrima such a fascinating system...Master Yuli encourages his people to express them self through the art, that way it never dies...like Maestro Yuli says " our structures are the same, but our houses MUST be different"....this way BaHad Zu'Bu grows and individuals become intuitive as opposed to carbon copies merely mimicking the head instructor.

    The art must be absorbed to be truly yours....some are topical at best....
     
  14. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    My favorite Ilustrisimo technique is the abanico.
     
  15. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Do you do it in a particular way, or is it similar to how it's done in other FMAs?
     
  16. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    Other FMA's do it in such a way that if you replace the stick with blade, the flat of the blade will land instead of the edge and will stop in a certain range of the wrist. The ilustrisimo abanico is strictly blade oriented without the wrist restricting the range, always the blade chops, hacks, and slices, palm-up and palm-down, left-side to right-side of the opponent's body, high and low.
     
  17. sneaky

    sneaky New Member

    Hi all,

    My favorite KI tech is enganyo and lutang, watch Tatang move and you see them both again and again.

    All the best,

    Jim
     
  18. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    Clasico is one of my fav too. And you're right, it looks so cool especially when done during a fast paced freeform contra por contra.

    Another wicked technique is that one which looks like a mix of Cadena Real, Uyon and Clasico. Similar to Cadena Real's entrada but differs in its atraca and seguidas which is a hook, dig and slice.
     
  19. BayaniWarrior

    BayaniWarrior New Member

    My favorite Illustrisimo technique has got to be Bagsak...the vertical dropping strike. It's use along with the Lutang footwork is as basic, simple, effective, and devestating as it gets. I've used this technique in real time against resisting opponents and it really works against nearly every means angle of attack.

    -Mike
     
  20. Black Grass

    Black Grass Junior Member

    If I only had time to teach a limited number of techniques bagsak would be number one the other would be V-De Cadena-V. I have sparred and fought tourney's only using these two techniques and won.

    Vince
    aka Black Grass
     

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