Would you train under and uncertified "guro"

Discussion in 'General' started by geezer, Jan 12, 2008.

  1. Fan the Madman

    Fan the Madman Circles with Knives

    It's funny... I have a certain amount of background.. but I have nothing
    like "years of certified experience". What I am is the guy with a roof
    and a spot.
    It's like asking "where is your certificate to be a farmer sir?" and the
    guy standing in the middle of the cornfield looks around at his crops,
    and then at you with this incredulous look like "WTF??".
    In another 3 years I will probably be better than 98% of FMA types,
    just cause I'm doing this full-time and I've got ridiculous levels of
    free private instruction from senior types in various sport arts.
    I'm planning to get some training for myself and a senior student
    in Pekiti.. because it's interesting and I want him to have some sort
    of "verifiable rank" when he moves to Colorado and starts a gym of
    his own.. but it's not like I need it.
    Why?
    My mom has a huge kitchen and she's comfy in it. She doesn't need
    a "chef's certificate". She has fried chicken.
    I've got a studio, and a business and students. Do you know how many
    people have asked to see "my credentials"?

    I'll give everyone a clew... it rhymes with "Nero". LOL.
     
  2. roger211

    roger211 New Member

    Thats what I mean.

    as mentioned, I havent ran across anyone yet that is just a rip off artist.
     
  3. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Brit with a stick

    Oh I have come across a few here in the UK.
     
  4. tellner

    tellner New Member

    I might train with an uncertified instructor. I wouldn't train with an unqualified one. My first Silat teacher (Brandt Bollers) had a student-instructor certificate from one of Victor and Willem's former students. He knows more about staying alive than anyone I've met with three or four exceptions tops. My current teacher (Stevan Plinck) never got a belt or certificate. There are people in North America whose Silat is at least as good. I doubt there are any who are better at two out the Big Three - technical skill, fighting ability and quality as a teacher.

    When he was a teenager and looking for Silat instruction outside his family Guru Plinck went to his first Silat teacher (his grandmother) for advice. Every time he mentioned a guru or pendekar she'd ask him one question: "Stevie, can he fight?" If the answer wasn't an unequivocal "Yes" she wasn't interested. It didn't matter how many impressive titles there were or the number of years he'd been teaching. When he finally found ones who could fight she was willing to ask other questions.
     
  5. geezer

    geezer Member

    This brings up a really important question. If you are not naturally "a fighter" can you be an effective martial artist, and by extention, a good instructor. Can martial training develop not only your technique, but your metality to the point where you can hold your own against a "natural born fighter" of similar size and physical condition? If not, is martial training just a fantasy for most of us? I know this goes off-topic, so I'll start another thread. I hope you weigh in, Tellner, since it sounds like you know a bit about this subject.
     
  6. tellner

    tellner New Member

    The number three seems to be significant in the human mind. So I'll arbitrarily say that there are three important areas for a martial artist, especially an instructor: fighting, technical skill and teaching. If you have all of them you are worth a second or third look. If you're deficient in one of them, you've got work to do. If you've only got one you've got some serious work to do before you should hang out your shingle. Lots of people have none but fool themselves into thinking they do.

    If people are coming to you to learn how to fight you need to be at least competent in using the stuff you're teaching. There are areas where sheer physical prowess overwhelms everything else. If a flyweight can win one bout out of four against a heavyweight he won't have the same win-loss record, but he's definitely worth taking a close look at. Then there are the pluggers who never quite do as well as the natural talents and Superior Genetic Mutants. On the "who wins fights" scale they might not measure up. But their ability to get further with what they have makes them in some sense better and may make them better teachers. They've had to learn how to make it work rather than relying more on natural endowments.
     
  7. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    So...continuing on the same lines....here's a question

    How do you determine whether someone can fight?

    Do you ask for their military records? Do you look through your town's police blotter to see if s/he is a LEO? Do you take the instructor at his/her word about how many "real fights" they have been in? Do you watch them on the mat? .Or sommething else?
     
  8. Guro Marc

    Guro Marc New Member

    Thoughts on Teachers

    Just my thoughts are this, First can the teacher fight if not how do know they can teach you to fight. Second can they explain what they do to some one else. You can not just say hit like this for everything. Certs are nice but how well do they really tell you about them. I have been lucky to have a number of good friend and family that could fight. No one ever asked Grandpa Espi if he had cert, but boy, he could hit you fast with stick. Nobody asked my teacher Felix Roiles if he had a cert when he kept winning fight after fight, instead the Doce Pares group said come fight for us because you keep winning, then they certified him as teacher. I think our many others including myself that not until later in life did some say hey we should give you a teaching cert because you can fight and explain how it is done. Just because someone is LEO doesn’t mean they can fight that well, just because they are a soldier doesn’t mean they can fight that well either. A good teacher can fight and explain how to do it and teach others how to also.
     
  9. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    Further to the technical and/or physical abilities demonstrated by the individual, one must possess the psychological capabilities or better yet, "mindset" to apply it in a so-called fight be it a sparring game or real world situation. These traits are the most difficult to attain and almost always self-taught let alone traits that can be assessed.
     

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