Would you go out on your own?

Discussion in 'General' started by geezer, Nov 3, 2008.

  1. geezer

    geezer Member

    I was just reading Bobbe Edmonds' blog, "Thick as Thieves" in which he discusses getting rid of a lot of old rubbish including certificates from many people he studied under. Apparently it was a little hard to rid himself of all these trappings of earlier days when he loyally trained under other instructors. But if I understood him, this was a necessary step in freeing himself to truly be his own man and do his own thing.

    Now my first instructor studied under Cabales, Giron, Sarmiento, Revillar, and others. But he also went out and started his own system...at a fairly early age. Hell, each of those old masters had their own system. As did Tatang Ilustrisimo, Floro Villabrille, the Presas, the young Edgar Sulite and dozens of others. My current instructor, Martin Torres, founded his own system...and he's damn good too. In fact it seems like most of the guys in the FMA who are really good eventually break off and do their own thing.

    Well, I don't have the talent or inclination to ever do that myself, but many of you may reach that level someday. Maybe you already have. When would you decide to go out on your own and why ...or why not?
     
  2. Kali Cowboy

    Kali Cowboy New Member

    Would I?...I did!...and let it go.

    This might bore you but what the heck, I'm bored so here ya go.....

    I think this is a great question and requires some thinking and some honesty with yourself.
    In a nut shell - I went out on my own, I felt something was missing and I gave it all up.

    Let me give you a little of my history.

    This is a long story, so if you got something to do, do it, if not, keep reading....

    I started my martial art journey in 1982. I studied Hung Ga (some say Gar) Kung Fu. The school was very traditional in its ranking system. When you started you had a black belt with a white tip for 5 years. Then you had a black belt with a red tip for 5 years. Then if you hung on for the 10 years you got promoted to Sifu, maybe. You then wore a black belt with some Chinese symbols embroidered in gold thread.

    Fun, fun, after three years I got tired of the political b.s. and the insults from the Master of the school, so I left. I practiced the 3 forms that I had learned in the three years I was there for the next 2 or 3 years.

    By now it is 1987 and I moved over to the IMB Academy in Carson California where I was introduced to Inosanto Blend Kali for the first time. I am not sure what it was called at that time but that is what it is called now. I trained there for 3 years before the class was moved to Marina Del Ray (a long way from my home) so due to time constraints and marrige problems I left the school. No ranking in Inosanto Blend.

    Now I had 6 years for formal martial art training and 3 years of "self exploration" under my belt in 2 completly differant systems and no ranking what so ever. Do ya see a pattern forming here? I continued this "self exploriation" until I moved to Florida in 1998.

    Not being able to find an Eskrima school near me I enrolled in a Shaolin 5 Animal Kung Fu School in St. Augustine Florida. My Sifu there allowed us to specialize in one of the animal systems as he is a Master of Tiger, Crane, Mantis, Snake, and Dragon. 6 years later I earned a Black Belt and 1 year after that I received my instructor rank in Shaolin Tiger Kung Fu. Wow 23 years later I finally finished something! But I was not fulfilled.....not one bit.

    Needless to say the entire time I was earning my rank in Kung Fu I was still practicing my Inosanto Kali. In 2000 I was surfing the internet and found the much maligned Master of Kali/Silat Greg Alland. Weather the things said are true or not is of no importance, he never screwed me. He is one of my teachers and you cannot deny that he can move.

    I did a lot of full contact stick fighting with the guys I hung out with and I had a lot of fun doing it.....They wanted me to open a school, so I did...I mixed the Kung Fu and Kali.....made a few people happy..... but I was still not satisfied, something was still missing!

    That's when I met a Man who showed me a thing or two about the sword and the art of Dekiti Tirsia Siradas. I fell in love. This was it! I found the system I had been searching for! My friend then introduced me to Grandmaster Jerson "Nene" Tortal. He is a wonderful man. Grandmaster encourged me to join his Federation....

    I told you that story so I could tell you this one....

    I closed my school, gave up what I had worked so long to get, because something inside told me to. I now have the art I love and have chosen to preserve and propagate it. I am backed by an federation and a Grandmaster. I have made a lot of good friends and am having more fun in my art than I have ever had.

    Please over look the bad spelling.

    God Bless,
    Stephen Shy
    DTS Florida
     
  3. travtex

    travtex New Member

    I'll probably end up going that route... Simply because I LOVE to teach. Whether it be martial arts or ANY of the random things I've picked up over the past few decades of being an obsessive learner.

    I'm technically a 2nd Dan in Hapkido, but I've long since lost any paperwork and my former instructor has become an ordained minister tai chi instructor with little interest in Official Rankings. Combine that and my career focus (And the schedule that entails)... I might never manage to get my 'Instructor Certification' in ANYthing, much less a specific art I respect.

    I'm a pediatric ICU specialist professionally, and it carries over into my "calling" for being an instructor -- I enjoy teaching kids. I'm not a fan of teaching blades to kids, but that fits in nicely with my experience and fairly pacifist philosophy: Empty hands.

    In the end, I'd LIKE some sort of piece of paper I could show to people to assure them I'm not some random idiot off the street, but for the most part I'm sure I'll end up just teaching what I can to people for free because I love doing it. 'Trav Fu', whatever the hell they want to call it.

    That count as 'breaking away'?
     
  4. jill_alcher

    jill_alcher New Member

    It is really no longer safe to go just anywhere.
     
  5. el maldito de cebu

    el maldito de cebu New Member

    my brother my opinion would say that it is your freedom that would guide you. if you are open minded then you would do what that man on your topic would do. you can understand and appreciate more martial arts if you cross training with other arts because you are not setting limitation on your self and these can create a new system. it is not bad for being a traditional but it also beter if the art evolves. evolution will guide you to a new system and encourage you to know more, creative and wiser. 2system is better than 1 system. if I were to decide I will establish my own system if I reach atleast 20years of being a martial arts practitioner. I started when I was 15y.old with yawyan shift to taekwondo now cacoy doce pares, judo, sikaran and penchak silat. I decide to explore to make my art more flexible and no limits in real situation of fight to come so I got 10 years more left to have my own system maybe by this time I can earn the respect of the GM I trained with to have there respect the previledge to have my own system
     
  6. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    I would go out of my own if my clan kick me out. There would be no other choice.
     
  7. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    I've been on my own for more than 25 yrs after leaving the Philippines and being blacklisted by one of the organizations that I once had faith in belonging to.. But such as with any family organization, there will be quarrels and things said that make for bad feelings all around.. So I left this organization with no place to go but up and on my own.. But recently, there has been postings on another forum where another renegade and myself have been slandered and belittled because we didn't kowtow to the whims of some of the " senior yet junior" practitioners.. They might be senior in rank, but as far as time in the art, they have a long way to go before they can match the over 75 yrs that this other renegade and myself have combined practicing this art..

    I have done more on my own without support than rather being tethered to the idle organizations of past, I go where I want and train with who I want for my own benefit than live in the past..

    Just my opinion..
     
  8. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Member

    There's a small part of me that thinks that "going out on your own" becomes the responsible thing to do at some point. For me, I started FMA in (Cacoy) Doce Pares in 1990. Spent more than 6 years doing exclusively that. But I'd spent 5 years prior doing taekwondo. And many years afterward doing various other things, both FMA (e.g., Inosanto Kali and Modern Arnis) and other (e.g., kickboxing, Western fencing, etc.). So part of me thinks that it's misrepresentation on my part to say I do represent Doce Pares. I'm a mutt. And my current Modern Arnis guro watches me do things and says "is that Doce Pares?" And I can't, in good conscience, say "Yes. Yes it is." In fact, in many cases, I can't definitively remember where it came from. So, after a fashion, I wonder if it doesn't make more sense to "go out on your own."

    That's NOT to say you have to make up your own style name, promote yourself, come up with an organization, etc. That's a different kettle of fish entirely. But it would be dishonest of me to say "I'm Doce Pares." And potentially unfair to the organization and style.

    Generally, I just discuss my teachers over the years. I think they're a better gauge of who I am in the arts than are style names anyway. I trained with the Patalinghugs, Guro Pat Finley, Guro Roman Picardo, etc. That carries more meaning, in my opinion.



    Stuart
     
  9. tellner

    tellner New Member

    Bill, I know it's a hackneyed old saying, but "I feel your pain." Really. Honestly. Been on the receiving end of this kind of crap so often it isn't even worth mentioning anymore. I don't know if it's martial arts in general or SE Asian ones in particular. That's why in happier days Mushtaq and Rennie had a joke that everyone in their style had to throw himself out of the organization at least once a year publicly bad-mouthing everyone in sight. They figured it would save time all-round.

    My wife and I came up with a saying that is only funny if you haven't had to use it as often as we have. "Indonesian Brain-rot strikes four out of five. Please give generously."
     
  10. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Todd,
    I know what you mean (old cliche I know).. Once or twice I have been involved with organizations and have given staunch support only to have the carpet ( or in the case of the IMA/FMA sarong) pulled out from my feet and unlike the proverbial cat, I never landed on my feet until I decided to tell them to go whizz up a rope and let me know it felt like rain.. I was one of the first American instructors to introduce Kuntaw/Kuntao into the southeastern US when I came back stateside in the mid 70s.. I was named the regional director for the area along with the same "honor" no matter where I lived.. But after I went back to the Philippines and started getting more into the depth and research of the system, I found out a lot of things that started making me sour on the organization.. I left the Philippines and went to live in Denver (before I heard of Uncle Bill and his group) where I taught a small group.. In 1993, I made contact with the organization that I was originally affiliated with during my time in the Philippines through a friend of mine who was a senior instructor in Kajukenbo out of san diego.. I renewed the ties with the organization after which a couple of years, things started going back to the way they were in the Philippines, so I left it again, but maintained ties with some of the senior practitioners until some allegations were made concerning my original instructor.. I left the organization and cut all ties with the senior practitioners since that time and to this day, have maintained ties with one other practitioner who was also tired of the politics and was blacklisted about 10 yrs after I was.. To this day, as I stated in my previous post, I go where I want and train with who I want to without any ties to organizations or associations full of people who are fed by their illusions of self grandeur and egos bigger than the hindenberg..

    I am no one special, just someone who walks the path of the tulisan (outlaw or renegade in tagalog)

    That is one reason I was glad when I had the chance to meet and train with Mushtaq and the rest of the Grand Rapids crew in 2005 where I met you and Tiel during the Spring Gathering of 05..





     
  11. Navadisha

    Navadisha New Member

    You've never really made it until you have detractors and enemies Bill.
    (And by then you no longer care).
     
  12. kuntawguro

    kuntawguro -== Banned ==-

    Bill and I are on the same page. I have been on my own since I left the Philippines not once getting backing or support. Instead what I got was back stabbing, money grabbing, and threats from the organization that I was supposed to promote. Having a letter sent saying I never attained any rank was the killer- so, now I am officially on my own and they can do what they want to do. I answer to my students and to myself. I give what I can without the stigma of " You gots to pay man" instead- what do you want, what do you need, how can I help. Works for me dude.
    Buzz
     
  13. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Steve,
    You and the rest of the crew know the story behind our lack of support from our former organization and our being blacklisted after being promoted then having our names withdrawn and deleted from the website announcing the promotion... It made me scratch my head when I was informed that Buzz and I were promoted despite our status as renegades and tulisans.. By the way, Buzz and I are going to change our names of our kuntaw from the present name to the Tulisan band and see what happens from there..
     
  14. Kailat

    Kailat KAILAT KOMBATIVES GROUP

    going out on your own

    I wrote on this once a way back. It is a responsible thing to do, going out on your own. There is a time when you need to break from your teacher, or organization etc.. I think I put it something like this. You are a child, a teenager and then you turn into a man. As a man you are responsible, you work and create a comfortable living on your own and create your own family. Martial arts is the same concept. You never forget where you come from but you cannot expect to be under the wing of your father or grand father forever.

    You have to grow and start a family on your own.. This means at some point after you have grown as a martial artist and acheived your highest potential and you feel it is time. ( only you will know when this is) you must begin to either seek another father (so to speak, by learning another system) or decide to teach what you know to your students. As your grandfather taught your father and your father taught to you..

    The time frame is however different in everyone's journey, however the principle is still the same... You have the option of passing along the family name, and creating a legacy or completely going into your own and begin what suites you. You can always learn, but there is a time when you just reach a point of maturity that you need to spread your wings and grow as an adult!

    just the way I see it.. There isn't anything wrong w/ being independant and doing what suites you..
     
  15. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    I hate all the political BS surrounding MA... I've met so many people who are so into this kind of crap that it's pathetic... I used to like to argue on forums about it but have since realized that I am just pouring gasoline to the fire...

    I'll just worry about my own training and not care what goes behind closed doors... All these ranks and status don't even matter to me... I say get rid of them and show your true skill that you learned in the ring... That should be the true test to becoming an instructor... Wins and losses not belts and certificates...
     
  16. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    You say use what you learn in the ring, well I can tell you that my training didn't come from the ring or fighting in some regulated dog kennel such as the current MMA rings.. My training came from people who have walked the walk and talked the talk in past global conflicts and my students carry on the traditions of doing so in the current global conflicts as I do currently in my present occupation as a police officer where I am residing currently.. For the last 35+ yrs, my training client base has been primarily military, security and law enforcement personnel who have expressed a need to have viable survival tools in their job.. I would rather have been trained by people who have used their training in real world situations instead of individuals who practice drills in the comfort of an airconditioned training facility where their environment is secure or in a ring that has rules.. I did the tourney thing when I was younger, but my focus was more into the reality of combat and street survival as that was the atmosphere and environment where I worked while in the military..






     
  17. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    I guess the problem with some organizations (especially those I refer to as "private-owned") is that at some point they become more important than the people making it... In such a case, I'd say one does not have too many choices. Another case is when one feels that their hitherto accumulated knowledge/experience actually requires a different expression, i.e. formulation, in which case it's only natural to go out and establish your own school.
     
  18. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    I think almost everyone at some point goes out on their own and broadens their horizons. I also feel it is very important to keep your ties and connections to your instructors and fellow practitioners. Do this and it is good for everyone. [​IMG]
     
  19. wes tasker

    wes tasker New Member

    Interesting topic...

    If by "going out on your own" someone means leave a certain organization, school, group etc. - then my answer would be maybe. That "maybe" is contigent on there being a valid (to me...) reason to leave. For now - I have a good relationship with all my teachers and I really don't see any reason that would cause me to leave any time in the future (but I realize one never really knows these things...).

    If by "going out on your own" someone means creating my own style or method - then my answer would be an emphatic "No". I study several arts (I've long given in to the fact that I'm going to be mediocre at a few arts rather than excel at one...) and I have no inclination to ever do anything other than earnestly practice them and pass some of them on the way I learned them. Usually if one art did not have a skill-set I wanted, I sought out another one that did (and then trained accordingly... i.e. - was I only interested in a specific skill-set or was I interested in the other art as a whole).

    -wes tasker
     
  20. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    In a way doesn't every one go out on their own to some degree? I have my affiliations and ties with my teachers ( Mang Yuli) and I respect his wishes as far as Bahad goes but the way I teach it is 100% my own ways. Master Yuli approves which is a good thing, perhaps a lot of other GM's do not abide by this. I figure it this way...we as teachers have to teach it the way that suits us best. We are all not going to move the same way as the next guy. I teach BaHad with respect to the methods, but what I do with the methods in the realm of teaching is in fact a different flavor from some other BaHad teachers..when we hook up we understand exactly what were doing but they tend to teach it differently. In the end it works out...Mang Yuli wants his people to have different flavors and to accentuate different elements. So in that regard aren't we all going our own way to some degree? Or do some try to teach just as they were shown with nothing of them self thrown into the mix?
     

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