Why so Callada (Quiet) about Serrada?

Discussion in 'Serrada' started by geezer, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. geezer

    geezer Member

    OK, I'm not a Serrada player, but I have profound respect for the legacy of GGM Cabales. He was one of my teacher's main instructors. My question is "Why so callada (quiet) about Serrada?" This is one of the major eskrima systems and nobody--well almost nobody--ever posts on this site. I'm in Phoenix and there's a guy out here who goes by the name of TSEfreeflow. He claims to be a high level master of the art, as taught by Master Jimmy Tacosa. I believe his real name is Michael Coconis. Although I'm confused, since he say's his dad's name is "Dr. Ko". How does that work? Does anybody know anything about him? His few posts are sparce and taciturn, implying possession of deep and secret wisdom. HEY! How about sharing a few of those secrets Mike! And the rest of you guys--I appreciate the fact that the arts are learned by swinging a stick and not by typing on a keyboard--but this is ridiculous. Speak up!
     
  2. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    This is a joke right? People change their names for various reason; especially highly spiritual ones...

    Check out their webpage to read up on Michael and his father, then watch the clips below and judge for youself. As for me, since ive seen Jimmy move personally, and i see a lot of jimmy in mike.

    [yt]uTeyfcIKnnY[/yt] [yt]Wa3nJWD0HhQ[/yt]

    Do you really stand around and wait for people to spew words of wisdom? From my understanding, he is quite a busy guy from law enforcement to teaching and practicing. Why dont you try asking him a question?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2008
  3. tsefreeflow

    tsefreeflow New Member

    Steve, please do not put words into my mouth for me. I have NEVER once claimed any master level in my training. I am currently a level 2 intructor under Master Tacosa and thats all that I claim. My Father changed his name many years ago when I was still in high school I believe and I decided not to follow suite as he had his reasons. Why does this concern you even remotely?
    I dont hide any knowledge I have. You can ask my students how forthcoming I am. But I follow the way of teaching that Master Tacosa has taught me and to many its seems very secretive. You just have to know how to open your eyes.
    If you have any questions or concerns about me, please just contact me and lets avoid any false representations about anyone from guessing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2008
  4. geezer

    geezer Member

    Thanks for responding--apparently people really are checking out this forum. I mean, isn't the whole point of a forum to promote interest, to exchange information, and to engage in discussion and debate? Peter and Mike, sure I could PM you guys...but then who besides me benefits? This way I annoyed Peter into posting some nice video clips. Thanks again! And if you're too busy to respond...fine. After all, only a few of the FMA GMs ever bother to post anything. Too bad, but we all understand. Still, I'm amazed at the quality of some of the input I do see. Read anything by Bobbe lately? It would be nice to see some stuff of that quality over here.
     
  5. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    Bobbe's stuff is awesome

    I certainly appreciate and look forward to the times he picks his own brain and shares invaluable information. But he posts that stuff in the General section.

    I like the pooling of quality information in that part of the forum. I would rather see other peeps share their insight there as opposed to clicking to every individual section.

    When this happens, too much info is spread all over the place...

    And, for the record, i wasnt annoyed, i all too happy to help you find out more about mike. Cuz when peeps see mike's skills, it's a testament to the knowldege and skills that Master Tacosa has and ultimately what he has to offer the FMA community. Remember Jimmy was part of the grassroots movement that brought Eskrima, hmm, (all FMAs) to the Continental US and the world abroad. That reason alone earns him great respect in my book...
     
  6. Demo

    Demo New Member

    One idea that comes to my mind based on something kind of off-handed that my instructor has brought up a few times, is that Cabales Serrada Eskrima(or, the material taught by Mr. Angel Cabales to his various students) is dying as an art. There were, in comparison to other arts, relatively few people promoted by GGM Cabales(17, which is supposedly more than normal for an Eskrima person according to my instructor) at the highest instructorship level. One half of the reason why I jumped at the chance to start training in Serrada was because I realized I had stumbled upon a relatively uncommon opportunity to at least for a little while train in Serrada; having already been aware of it prior through my own research into various Filipino martial art systems.


    As I gather from what my instructor has said and I remember from what i think came from Mark Wiley's book, there are many people who do Serrada Eskrima and something else, but few who really specialize and gain high-level instructorship in Cabales Serrada Eskrima.

    So, perhaps there is little sound on the board because we've sort of by happenstance ended up as our own kind of private club. Woo?

    However, I would mention as my own observation that perhaps some of that is being turned around as nonetheless you do see more and more people somehow practicing Serrada. The name is at least still getting around, and I'd say perhaps picking up some steam.
     
  7. geezer

    geezer Member

    Just a thought: GM Cabales Serrada was in many ways a personal system--he assimilated what he learned from others, but did not teach their systems. Similarly, I've met many who trained under Cabales system who have gone on to re-interpret the techniques in their own ways. Some see this as a natural continuation of GM Cabales legacy, others view it as a watering-down or even a corruption of Cabales Serrada. Any opinions?
     
  8. Demo

    Demo New Member

    Some people definetly think that it is a corruption within Serrada, again with the whole "dying art" thing I've heard.

    After moving through the three-lesson "intro" program with my Serrada instructor, he asked me if I trained in any other styles/systems of martial art. I do, and replied as such, and said that it might be a problem since cross-training students within Serrada generally wasn't met with total agreement all the time for the sake of "maintaining" the art as handed down by GGM Cabales. He said that if his higher-up instructor isn't okay with whatever else I was training in addition to Serrada for reasons then my instructor technically would not be able to train me.

    Thankfully, the call went all right from my POV and my instructor's higher-up instructor had no problem with me training in my existing art(Dan Inosanto branch Jeet Kune Do) and Serrada.

    Personally, even my instructor seemed lukewarm to the policy. I myslef must admit I do not totally agree with it, but I can understand where people are coming from again given the status of Serrada nowadays I suppose.

    So, I'd say there is defintely people out there who think that such cross-proficiency in Serrada or integrating/modifying the techniques is "corruption".
     
  9. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    You guys are kinda misinterpreting things.

    First off, cross-training usually isnt a problem. If you've already taken another martial art, you cant conveniently forget for the sake of practicing another art. However when practicing serrada, you must do just that; ie keep things separate, which leads to the next point.

    When one teaches serrada, one should teach serrada without influence. That is not to say you cant teach (or learn) other arts. Just that when you teach another art, you keep the 2 arts seperate even if the arts have similar aspects. For example, let's say you are a 3rd degree black belt in TKD and a 1st level instructor in serrada. When you teach serrada, dont mix in tkd stuff. When you teach tkd, dont mix in serrada stuff (from my experience in tkd, that's how the world tkd federation wants it anyway).

    If you mix the 2, then you are no longer doing serrada, you are doing an eskrima blend. Back in his day, Angel practiced Eskrima. He only started to refer to his style of Eskrima as Serrada (synonymous with Espada y Daga) to differentiate his eskrima from all the other blended eskrima systems; arts that blended eskrima with outside martial arts such as combat judo, etc.

    Whenever he was asked why he changed the name to Serrada, he would reply, "...because, ip someone ask, i say Serrada, then they would know..." He meant that his contemporaries would understand that he was doing Eskrima based on Espada y Daga, not a blend, not a reinterpretation, not a reordering, but something venerable. I was told that it was no coincidence that his contemporaries referred to this style as The Old Style; what that means only one such as myself can guess, but i am sure the old masters understood.

    Angel revered his art and he even treated sticks with utmost respect (one of my instructors got an earful when he nonchalantly tossed a stick on the ground). He fought in stick death matches, and underground "boxing" matches, and fought to keep the peace on the docks of Tondo(?) and his venerable style of Eskrima kept him alive. Know that Angel was a very short man who probably weighed about 100 lbs. With this in mind, it is no wonder that Angel wanted to keep his art pure and uninfluenced, not spaghetti. Everything you do in eskrima (serrada, i should say) has a purpose, one may not see/understand that purpose, but according to Angel, it was there. If you mix something in that isnt part of the system, then u probably are not understanding something on some level. When one becomes a full master, and understands, then one can explore other venues then take and give. Until then, we are all just grommets, seeing but not always fully understanding.

    I hope this small history lesson helps.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2008
  10. tsefreeflow

    tsefreeflow New Member

    Very nicely explained. I was thinking the same things when reading the above posts. There is never any problem with the learning of other systems, be it Pilipino or otherwise. The problem arises when the student cannot just focus on what is being taught by the instructor and perform it accordingly. How many times has a student stated things such as "well in my other art we did it like this...” or you teach them a block and they do it like Kali or jkd because they either cannot empty the cup or worse they are just being disrespectful. Either way will find you the door in my teaching. Others just avoid this by stating they do not allow cross training. Personally I would rather just excuse the student because if one cannot control themselves enough to simply compartmentalize tasks (i.e. systems) then I would rather not trust them to swing a stick at 120mph in my face or trust them to do any blade work :)
     
  11. Demo

    Demo New Member

    Oh wow, and I am very sorry for making that second post sound like a sweeping statement about the mentality of Serrada players. Further, I completely agree with above statements. You don't rant on about your last ex on a date, so don't rant on about how your other system does this with that like this over here.

    I was trying to illustrate a little experience I had with the efforts of a few, respectable and completely understandble efforts at that, to keep Serrada as Serrada instead of becoming some morphed thing that is a mass of a bunch of unconnected material that is far from what the originator taught/intended by their students.

    Basically, the reason why there was a need for my instructor to speak with one of his higher-up instructors was because a few of his higher-up instructors prefer people who have little martial background prior to learning Serrada for the sake of keeping the art whole and intact. So, regardless my motives and mentalities(which I didn't really have many delusions about; this wasn't exactly the first time I trained under more than one instructor in a different system from what else I was training in) it was the fact that I am currently training in something else at all that was a bother.

    THAT is what my instructor felt a bit lukewarm about; denying training simply because a person has prior training in something else and is not "fresh".

    Again, forgive the long in the tooth but I feel my last post accidentally made it to seem to paint some people rather negatively, which is not my intent. I can completely understand where people are coming from on that.

    To be quite honest, I got the feeling it was more to monitor for something specific than just anybody who had prior martial art training at all. Clearly I diddn't fit the bill, and so all was well and still is since I am still happily recieving lessons in Serrada.

    Hopefully that cleared things. No posting as i rush off to work next time!
     
  12. tsefreeflow

    tsefreeflow New Member

    There are many reasons why some change Serrada. And your right that Serrada should stay Serrada. It is a complete system on its own, and needs nothing else to improve it. Most changes are made because one does not know the correct way its done or only learnt part of the system and is finishing the system in there own way. THIS is watering the Serrada down and should be noted when choosing a Serrada instructor. I think every system should be kept as its system, if for no other reason than respect for the history, founders etc... If you "also" wish to do a mix of the system for "yourself" then I totally agree and one should experiment. As for teaching a mix, I feel this mix is only good for one person, and thats the one who mixed it. Your mix will not work for everyone.
     
  13. Dagadiablo

    Dagadiablo New Member

    TSfreeflow is right...there is no need to change Serrada--players simply need a DEEPER understanding of Nong Angel's art----TRULY heavy bladed material! IMHO, Serrada's flow is simply brilliant!
     
  14. Mr. Smooth

    Mr. Smooth New Member

    A great teacher and a close friend explained it to me this way...."The path to enlightenment takes commitment...Everything else is an illusion."
     
  15. Mr. Smooth

    Mr. Smooth New Member

    Posted by accudent.
     

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