Why hit the arm so much?

Discussion in 'Serrada' started by geezer, Nov 2, 2007.

  1. geezer

    geezer Member

    Since nobody's posting much lately, I've got a question as an outsider to traditional Cabales Serrada. Why do you guys hit so much to the hand and arm. I worked with one talented player who'd hit the hand and arm , move in and hit the body, then move back out and further abuse my arm! Why not work in from hand and arm to direct body/head shots and finish the job? I heard two responses: one was that the arm was a safer substitute for direct shots when training, and the other was along the lines of hitting the arm being more compassionate. Compassionate! Hey we're talking self-defence against a weapon here.
     
  2. Dagadiablo

    Dagadiablo New Member

    In closing/exiting, the "roll" factors the other weapon hand (as a hit or a trap), the "lock" traps the weapon/arm (either side) to set up to close to get to the head. As a blade art and system, simply beautiful and ingenious. Unfortunately, most Serrada players don't work it that way due to lack of understanding.

    Mabuhay
     
  3. Christian

    Christian New Member

    A Serrada player once told that this training method was put into the system by Angel Cabales - for safety reasons.

    Regards
    Christian
     
  4. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-

    Yes part of it is for safety reasons, the other part is to thoroughly destroy the hand(fang) to remove it from the equation thats why one destroys on the way out. Also what's wrong with having compassion ?? I know in Pedoy's Derobio Escrima they have a creed :

    An Escrimador must have the Wisdom and Discretion

    to know when to use his art. When forced to use it

    he must show Humanity against aggressors who cannot

    defend against it and the Humbleness not to boost about

    the Power he holds. In doing so He will gain Harmony both

    with his Art and his Life. ( Pedoy/Derobio Creed)
    So you see FMA from way back in the day had a component of compassion as part of FMA as do other martial arts. Aloha
     
  5. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    The main objective is to defend oneself and not kill someone. An aggressor with no hands/arms is not much of an aggressor. If he can't use his hands/arms anymore, maybe he will stop bugging you.
     
  6. tsefreeflow

    tsefreeflow New Member

    The simple explanation is because he was doing demonstration style Serrada. The first way and how many only learned was to strike the hands of the opponent. Serrada is actually not played like that at all in reality.
     
  7. Sheldon Bedell

    Sheldon Bedell New Member

    As an outsider to the system I would guess that the principle of destroy what is closest to you would apply
     
  8. MichaelJB

    MichaelJB New Member

    I think I may be the individual that is being referenced in this thread. So, here's my two pennies...If I'm not that person, well, I had a couple of pennies to spare.

    So the Serrada players know what I'm talking about - Geezer had requested some insight on basic Serrada movements so I showed the defondo for the vertical "block" (some call it "cross" block) going inside on a #1 strike. The reason I had him try out this drill was to show him a difference in our footwork and that one can be effective without having to move a lot.

    Geezer's movements tend to hover in the medium range. Now, this next part is not criticism, just a difference in our styles. When he tried the defondo in close range, he was using his larger movements and as a result, created a lot of openings. He was also doing "unnecessary movement", which also creates openings.

    I didn't use the drill to show Serrada's lethality, use against multiple attacks, multiple attackers, or anything else. I was showing him ways of moving without having to move so much. Many people say that I move very fast. I don't actually. I just move a lot LESS than they do. This was my focus during our time together. When the focus changes to combat applications, then the drills will change to accomodate.
     
  9. dennisservaes

    dennisservaes New Member

    We strike to the weapon hand and arm, because of legal reasons but also simply because it is smart. If I take away the threat first I can follow up with attacks to the head or where ever the person needs struck.
    Train hard and have fun!
    Dennis
     
  10. geezer

    geezer Member

    Speed is relative

    OK so my movements get big (that's my misguided attempt to generate power). The DTE guys have made the same point. Still, don't go around saying you aren't fast--economy of motion crates speed! And, after all speed is relative. I, for example, am faster than my 84 year old alcoholic uncle.
     
  11. Christian

    Christian New Member


    Why are you writing so loud?

    :)
     
  12. MichaelJB

    MichaelJB New Member

    ...and yeah, I know I know...it's not all about speed. Don't start yelling at me about that. It was just ONE thing we were working on :)
     
  13. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-

    Because I like to.Also so it can be seen. ok ? One can choose where one strikes after the initial clash but immediately taking out the hand first does has its value. Then the fight could stop or if need be have more parts of opponents body removed from service to achieve no more fighting !!
     
  14. Dagadiablo

    Dagadiablo New Member

    OK, not so "callada"...

    you aren't just hitting or hacking that arm---you are FACTORING the other weapon that is being delivered. All of your opponents attacks, checks and counters are effectively now being countered...

    Food for thought--now go play...
     
  15. Demo

    Demo New Member

    Kind of late in it, but eh...

    As to the hitting the arm->another target->back to arm, I'd say it sounds like instructor approach. When I perform my techniques in practice, I'll usually check or hit right off the offending limb, and then follow up with another strike&check to finish. My instructor will usually start the same way when he performs the technique and follow up with any manner of strikes & "cuts" to the head, neck, legs, groin, or any part of the arm depending on what he is intending to practice himself at that moment without encessarily following an arm->elsewhere->arm pattern.

    Nothing wrong with either approach I'd say, but it just sounds like different strokes.
     
  16. Mr. Smooth

    Mr. Smooth New Member

    Beginners in this art are taught this way...to hit, check, lock on the arm. However, as practitioners in this art evolve and become intermediate, then advanced...then the focus of technique isn't necessarily on the arm. The initial and secondary hits can focus on other targets along the body.

    Those that practice this art understand that repetition is the key to really developing speed and power. The exercise of hitting, checking, and locking is put to the test in the lock and block drill...which really goes thru espada y daga. This drill also puts footwork and body movement into play...in this format, the drill is less static and more live. Intermediate/advanced students know, although the drill starts out in a pattern, it quickly devolves into what appears to be chaos to the receiving practitioner's eye. At this point, hopefully the repetition, practice of hitting the arm, and learning to hit targets anywhere on the body, keeps the student moving, flowing, staying centralized, and continually learning to negate the attacks of the aggressor from either the left or right side coming from any angle.

    Advanced practitioners that like to really test their skill and take it "all the way", will work entering, trapping, grappling, and other techniques just within the lock and block drill. I would only recommend this with a good serrada/eskrima instructor that understands the drill, knows how to stay in control, and when to terminate the exercise so no one is excessively hurt. I do say "excessively", because anyone that has tested themselves going close to 100% (especially with sticks and training knives) knows you will experience bumps and bruises.

    In my humble opinion, and I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree, which is fine...hitting the arm is a great thing to learn, especially on the receiving end. I've learned from dropping my stick when I need to close that gap instantly, so I'm not whacked or running back. I've also learned that my pain tolerance has gone up tremendously from my elbows to my fingernails on both arms. :) But, for me, the most important thing I've learned is to retain my weapon that much more, especially when being on the receiving end of an exchange.

    Everyone's training methods have to start somewhere, especially if you're a beginning student. When it comes to this art, the student starts with focusing hits and targetting the arm. It is up to the individual student to take his learning higher so he understands the combative applications, just as much as the traditional applications of his/her art. Hopefully, the compassionate spirit is passed from instructor to student, so that mercy is shown in true battle and ego is not seen as the truth.

    Side note...as an instructor within this art teaching beginning students, I am still getting hit on my arm...ALOT. Haha.
     
  17. Mr. Smooth

    Mr. Smooth New Member

    Beginners in this art are taught this way...to hit, check, lock on the arm. However, as practitioners in this art evolve and become intermediate, then advanced...then the focus of technique isn't necessarily on the arm. The initial and secondary hits can focus on other targets along the body.

    Those that practice this art understand that repetition is the key to really developing speed and power. The exercise of hitting, checking, and locking is put to the test in the lock and block drill...which really goes thru espada y daga. This drill also puts footwork and body movement into play...in this format, the drill is less static and more live. Intermediate/advanced students know, although the drill starts out in a pattern, it quickly devolves into what appears to be chaos to the receiving practitioner's eye. At this point, hopefully the repetition, practice of hitting the arm, and learning to hit targets anywhere on the body, keeps the student moving, flowing, staying centralized, and continually learning to negate the attacks of the aggressor from either the left or right side coming from any angle.

    Advanced practitioners that like to really test their skill and take it "all the way", will work entering, trapping, grappling, and other techniques just within the lock and block drill. I would only recommend this with a good serrada/eskrima instructor that understands the drill, knows how to stay in control, and when to terminate the exercise so no one is excessively hurt. I do say "excessively", because anyone that has tested themselves going close to 100% (especially with sticks and training knives) knows you will experience bumps and bruises.

    In my humble opinion, and I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree, which is fine...hitting the arm is a great thing to learn, especially on the receiving end. I've learned from dropping my stick when I need to close that gap instantly, so I'm not whacked or running back. I've also learned that my pain tolerance has gone up tremendously from my elbows to my fingernails on both arms. :) But, for me, the most important thing I've learned is to retain my weapon that much more, especially when being on the receiving end of an exchange.

    Everyone's training methods have to start somewhere, especially if you're a beginning student. When it comes to this art, the student starts with focusing hits and targetting the arm. It is up to the individual student to take his learning higher so he understands the combative applications, just as much as the traditional applications of his/her art. Hopefully, the compassionate spirit is passed from instructor to student, so that mercy is shown in true battle and ego is not seen as the truth.

    Side note...as an instructor within this art teaching beginning students, I am still getting hit on my arm...ALOT. Haha.
     
  18. Mr. Smooth

    Mr. Smooth New Member

    Sorry....not sure how I posted this twice.
     
  19. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

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