Why bother?

Discussion in 'The Den' started by chubbybutdangerous, Jul 10, 2010.

  1. chubbybutdangerous

    chubbybutdangerous CHUBBY MEMBER

    I come from what I consider a patriotic family. My mom and dad came here legally. My dad retired from US Naval service and was a POW for while after being captured by the Japanese. I also served in the USMC. And now recently my son has served and getting ready to get out. I would safely say all the men in my family are proud to be US citizens. We served because we love our country and our way of life. For those who know, FREEDOM ISN'T FREE! I also realize that every human has certain rights. Every nation has it's citizens and affords their citizens certain rights. Here in the US (My favorite nation) we have our own rights, laws etc. But why should someone who enters illegally into this country have just as many benefits and rights as someone who is legally a US citizen. Why did 3 generations of my family serve the military? Why pay taxes? Why not alot of things? And why slap a lawsuit on my state? Because we have immigration laws like everybody else but are trying to uphold them to the letter of the law? Has anyone seen whats going on it some of our border towns? Stay in towns like Nogales and tell me what you see. To be a legal or illegal immigrant... why bother nowadays? And don't get me started on why a Commander in Chief should aways salute the flag when protocol calls for it. Sorry guys, just had to rant and get this off my chest. But I would like to here some responses to what I've posted.
  2. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Darth Vindicatus Supporting Member

    Problem is, some folks forget the whole "illegal" part, and just want to open the doors wider, hand out free food, retirement funds, and health care, then charge it to the folks who are here legally and who pay taxes. I fully support Arizona's stand against illegals, and expect them to put the Obama DOJ in it's place. The problem that thousands of illegals are crossing the border daily isn't one of cheap lettuce, but one of drug runners, slave traders, murderers, rapists, gun runners and terrorists coming in unimpeded. When you have thousands of acres of American land off limits to Americans because the Federal government is refusing to do much until some bills pushing an agenda are passed...one can argue that some in the Federal government are giving aid to our enemies...the legal definition of treason as per the Constitution. Then again, some will argue that document's rather vague, defective and up for interpretation. I take a strict view, and think it says what it say, period. So, cut off the routes the illegals come through, when found remove them from the country, and if found again, remove them by HALO drop or catapult. :)

    http://www.keepazsafe.com/ :)
  3. patrickdpr

    patrickdpr New Member

    Let me first say that I am a USMC vet, and still serving this country in my community as a school teacher and giving free self defense classes etc etc.

    Secondly- my Grandpa was an illegal immigrant from Mexico. He came to American with about $200, and the hopes of his family back home on his back, at the age of 12. He worked hard and sent money back to support them, as well as himself and eventually his wife and my Mom and her brothers and sisters. He became successful, owning several businesses- not on any hand outs but hard work. Every single one of my uncles served in the US Army and fought in Vietnam thereafter. I am not ashamed of my Grandpa or what he did, nor will I ever be.

    I try to put myself in others positions before I made judgments about them- if I could not get into the US legally, and had a family that I could not afford to feed at home... I would do WHATEVER I had to do to support them. I don't know if I would illegally enter another country or not, if I had no other options I suppose I would.

    It's a tough subject... and I understand where people come from on both sides of the argument...
  4. geezer

    geezer Member

    OK, Chubberous, let me start by sayin that I just got home after some nasty oral surgery and I'm on meds. So when I show up for sparring class at the park next Saturday, I may well deny ever having posted this!

    Now my point is simple. A lot of good folks from Mexico are desperate for work, and we offered them jobs. For years and years, if they came across without papers, it was no big deal. I wonder if our Maestro's parents were legal? I doubt it. But they worked hard, took no handouts, and look at our Maestro and his kids. First class citizens. OK, things have changed over the last couple of decades, and we have to control our borders. And people should immigrate legally. But the truth is that poor, working class Mexicans can't get here legally. Even if they do all the paperwork, pay the fees, and even the bribes (in Mexico), and wait for years and years. They still can't get in. So it's disingenuous to go around like a lot of people do and say stuff like "I wouldn't mind if they did it the right way, legally". You've heard people say that right? Well, there ain't no legal way for them. Lets fix that, and fix the border. Then they can earn there way up here. Maybe by getting work permits, serving this country in the military, eventually qualifying for citizenship, doing whatever it takes. You're right, "FREEDOM ISN'T FREE". So, let's control the border, and also find a way to let good hard-working mexican folks earn their way in.

    Technically, our "Commander in Chief" is considered a civilian (even if he previously served in the military) and is not supposed to salute the Flag, but instead is supposed to put his right hand over his heart as any patriotic civilian does. Many Presidents ignore this rule and do give a military style salute, especially when addressing troops, or in other situations where it's politically advantageous, and it's generally not considered to be a big deal, anymore. I believe Reagan, both Bushes, and maybe even Clinton may have done this. Not sure... Still, since we live in a country with a constitution that specifies civilian rather than military rule, the custom is to use the civilian rather than military form of showing respect.

    Now why this question? Did I miss something in the news? Did the President "dis" the Flag or something? Oh well, fill me in on Saturday when I'm off my meds!
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2010

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