What is in Pekiti-Tirsia Kali System

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by GrandTuhon Leo T Gaje Jr, Mar 14, 2008.


    GLENNLOBO New Member


    "Not to answer the questions but rather question the answers." This is said to be the beginning of a true education. Just because somebody asks and seeks clarification does not mean that person is "foolish" and there is not need to call someone as such (as you did Master Glenn Lobo).

    it is said the only stupid questions are the unasked ones.i ask questions because it is the way to learn. as Banakun says then you question the answers to ensure they have validity and test them. not in a negative way but in the way you test your sword to see if it is true..i was trained to disprove my hypothesis (null hypothesis) it means that you have a theory. you try to disprove it. if you cannot then there is a chance it is correct. the attitude is to constantly doubt your diagnosis beause that way you might keep your patients alive. i humbly apologise if it is seen as offensive. i like to ask questions.

    i wasnt there with Dan I or Suryadi J, but i was asking the question. there would have been some trade of information. it is always likely that in any such trade, there will be more information going to than coming from Dan simply by virtue of what he does. i ask the question is it not possible that Mr Gaje also learnt something from interacting with these people or any others. if he did that would by definition mean that PTK is not pure. if he did not learn anything does that mean he doesnt think they are any good, or his techniques are better or what.

    i for one, and i am sure everyone else, does not question his dedication to Filipino culture history and traditions. i love discussing philosophy.

    What I would like to do is invite you to one of our seminars for you to see for yourself what we are talking about here. thank you. i had stopped attending seminars with people i dont already know because as soon as people find out i am there they start to try to prove that they are better than me, or my system. i find it tedious because i like to learn from people not have them boost their ego at my expense. since you have made such a kind offer i will consider it. thankyou.
    If you haven't experienced Pekiti-Tirsia Kali you shouldn't make judgement. what judgement. i am not judging anything, merely asking questions so i can understand more.

    Let the blade speak and the rattan interpret
    .. what does that mean?

    what do you expect him to say... obviously he thinks it's the best thing there is. how can we frame that in a negative way? we all think our art is best, but we dont put others down. we all have something to offer.

    How many other grandmasters are on this forum sharing their knowledge? none that i know of, which is why i want to ask questions of the one that is.. hells teeth, how many chances do you get to ask questions of a GM? but there is no point in posting stuff which is inflammatory, potentially erroneous, contradictory, and then not answer it, and merely jump up and down saying everyone is being mean and nasty. if he answers the questions, THEN he is sharing knowledge, up till that he is inciting, or teasing..
  2. franci1911

    franci1911 Member

    Bill, I have been a practitioner of the Filipino Martial Arts as well for more than 30 years. And all within the same system of Pekiti-Tirsia Kali. And you are agreeing with my point as far as respect. What I am saying is that GrandTuhon is his Title not (GT). If Kuya or Kyad as you call it is what they expect to be called should you call them (K). Tell me what is the proper greeting when an elder is greeted? Would you disrespect that elder if you didn't show him the proper respect by taking his hand and placing it to your forehead.

    So being married to a Filipina and in the FMA for 30 years, no one has ever disrepected an instructor of yours and not be dealt with?
  3. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Oh, I've stepped up to the plate and have settled some disputes that disrespected Master Reston and Kyud Con.. In fact, I went toe to toe verbally with one of our senior people in Kuntaw for making false statements about Con.. These statements pissed me off so much that I actually flew to the Philippines and tried to get to the bottom of the situation with the lineage holder of the Kuntaw system that I studied at the time.. The individual was not "available" to talk to me about this situation and when I called him a month later, I was told that the statements were made by another family member and he knew nothing about it.. I wrote a letter of resignation to the organization and basically told them to not include me in any shape or form as to the progress of the organization because of these statements

    A couple of years later, I had a long indepth conversation with some of the old school guys in the angeles area who I had trained with back in the day and found some interesting tidbits of history on this situation. but that is in the past

    As far as paying respect to the manongs and lolas of the Philippines, I have been doing the bless thing since I was inducted into the Philippine customs and culture by my wife.. It blows a lot of people away with the sight of an american showing respect that way especially since a lot of the newer generation filipino kids forgot how to do that.. I have been told by filipinos that I act more filipino than most of the people who they know and I classify the Philippines my second home due to the martial culture that I have embraced for 30 plus years and when the fecal matter hits the oscillating mechanism, it's balls out.

    I try to treat everyone the same when it comes to the FMA and respect the culture, but there are times when I need to step back and take a deep breath with some of the writings that I have seen come across the net and other fma sources of information over the recent years..I sit back and shake my head and wonder what we have gotten ourselves into with all the bickering and back stabbing and why we are shaking our dirty laundry letting the whole world see the stuff that should be kept between family members and not for the whole world to see.

    Just my .02 centavos

    GLENNLOBO New Member

  5. Dagadiablo

    Dagadiablo New Member

  6. sparrow

    sparrow New Member

    You may ask this question also to Mr. Nonito Limchua of Doce Pares, former trainer of Marcos Presidential Guards....

    As far as showing respect to experts FMA for 15 years already in Mindanao-Cebu-Manila, never have I been asked to name my instructors GM or Master. Just brother.... There is only one master but god, don't bow to any man but him was my first lesson in FMA.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2008
  7. Gilla

    Gilla -== Banned ==-

    Mr. Glennlobo it seems you are a muck slinger just throwing dung everywhere. After 20 years of study PTK is about as true Kali as you get. Tuhon did study silat, so what is your point. I also have news for you DTK is not PTK . Tt is from a group called supreme martial arts club a group that studied karate judo and arnis. Now stop being a pain.
  8. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

    -FMAT Admin

    GLENNLOBO New Member

    thank you arnisador.

    the point, i had hoped was clear. iF PTK is as pure as you can get, with no outside influences from other martial arts, and silat has been incorporated then it is not pure so the defence arguement is fallacious. i am sorry i had to explain. i thought it was obvious.
  10. franci1911

    franci1911 Member

    Who said Silat was Incorporated. GrandTuhon Gaje had already a strong understanding of the Pekiti-Tirsia Kali Family System. He did a comparative analysis to see what makes silat TICK. He did not incorporate it or any other style/systme into the family system.
  11. franci1911

    franci1911 Member

    Silat and Kali is a Malay Fighting Culture. Meaning Filipino and Indonesian Cultures can be authenticated through language, different dialects, life style of the people, agriculture, fishing, hunting, forestry, and all activities to survive which are Malay Culture. So Silat would be checked with Kali and Kali can be checked with Silat. So the influence of Silat as a Malay Culture Kali influence also Silat. You can find this in footwork, smoothness of motion, and more on meta-physics.

    Please conduct your research more thorough before you make such statements.
  12. franci1911

    franci1911 Member

    In all the years I have been in martial arts 47 now more than 3 decades in FMA. Not one teacher demanded me to call them by title, however there ability and actions is what earns them that kind of respect.

    As far as being asked, Have you ever met with Guro Dan Inosanto? If so did you call him Hey Danny? Or better have you attended college? Most of the teachers there are considered Professors. When you addressed them did you say Hey Teach? I think not.

    By the way calling someone GrandTuihon or Tuhon does not imply or take way from your faith. Or repacing them with your God. I am a very strong Roman Catholic. I believe in God, however I also believe in giving proper respect. For the knowledge that they posses.

    When you use the term Master or Tuhon as we do. you are giving respect to that individual (GrandTuhon Leo T Gaje jr.) who has totally mastered the system of which you (we) are learning and not treating him as God.

    Also for those of you who use Brother, Kuya, Kyad in respect to their teachers that's fine on a personal basis. If that's what you or they prefer you to call them out of respect. Having been around the Philippines which I am right now, I do not find this to be the case. Or maybe you're just in the wrong system.
  13. PeteNerd

    PeteNerd Member

    I speak english and I studied tagalog also... that doesn't mean somehow I incorporated tagalog into my english. My english is still english.

    You guys are trying really hard to get at a couple things. I get what you're doing. You're trying to say that Grand Tuhon says that he thinks PTK is better than other FMA and you want to prove that PTK isn't 100% absolutely totally filipino. On the first note we've already covered that. Grand Tuhon thinks it's the best and a lot of people in PTK think it's the best.

    As for Grand Tuhon incorporating silat into PTK, I don't see it but I don't really care either. The material and the way that Grand Tuhon teaches is heads above any other FMA practitioners I've met in the states. As far as the legitimacy of PTK as a filipino fighting system... it's traced back to 1890's.

    It's clear you guys want and argument and that's cool. Franciotti and I can go on and on. Eddie will probably jump in from time to time too.

    Honestly I think these conversations would be better had in person. I invite all of you to check out Pekiti Tirsia if you have a chance and meet with Tuhon Gaje. We believe in hospitality and respect and we think the material speaks for itself. If you haven't spent some time with Tuhon or the system, then I would be careful of making assumptions about what is what.

  14. franci1911

    franci1911 Member

  15. greg808

    greg808 PSDE Main Branch

    Everyone should stop with their assumptions concerning Grand Tuhon Gaje, he is entitled to his beliefs and oppinions. I have never met Grand Tuhon Gaje, but have met an instructor of his. He was very humble and respectful. Every system and school has their own problems and unless you know the facts it is easy judge from the outside.

    "There is no bad martial art, only bad martial artist"- Bruce Lee
  16. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Greetings from Guam.. I too have studied tagalog and English is my first language. As Franciotti and I have stated before we have been studying the FMA for more than 3 decades and we each march to a different drummer in our specific FMA training and travels.. I primarily have stayed with the Luzon (more specifically the Pampangan Plains of central Luzon) based Filipino arts where the warriors from Macebe and Pampanga in general were hired as mercenaries to fight against the different aggressors that tried to occupy the respective areas of the Philippines..

    But over the years and having my instructors die one by one, you sometimes lose access and training by the old school guys who have walked the walk and kept the talk to a minimum.. It is with this happening that I decided to look outside of the box and see what else as far as the FMA from the different regions of the Philippines had to offer.. As I have stated previously a few of my instructors were guerrillas and Filipino scouts who survived the actions of ww2 due to their training and the dakap diwa (warrior mindset) development of their respective family system.

    The art of Pekiti first interested me as early as the mid 80's by reading and training with some of the PTK guys who I had limited exposure to because of my military assignments.. The selling point for me to study PTK was the focus on the blade which was high on my needs and requirements as a medic with limited access to weapons due to the regulations and requirements outlined by the Geneva Convention, so ingenuity and readily available tools were called on to perform life saving actions as required.

    But over the years and watching the evolution of PTK unfold, it got to the point where the desire to learn the system started to wain.. It was an accidental meeting while I was in San Antonio in 01, where I was invited to attend a couple of the training sessions with Rudy Salazar's guys that peaked my interest in PTK again.. Over the years, I have had regular contact with several senior PTK practitioners primarily from the texas area and their input kept me interested in the system.. But due to my travel requirements along with my current location, my training with PTK was very limited. The only training in PTK that I have had access to was with a friend who studied at the Inosanto academy back in the late 70s to early 80s, he had a varied work schedule so the training schedule was haphazard to say the least.

    It was while I was in Chicago where I had the opportunity to train in DTS and that was the resulting reason why I decided to go this route as furthering my training in the Filipino combatives systems..

    I still have colleagues with in the PTK community and we share a common thread which is the presenting of our respective eskrima/arnis/kali systems to the public who wish to train in the FMA..

    It is the threads that people read which formulate their opinion on whether or not they want to train in the arts that they see senior people involved with arguments and the comparison of ball sizes which drive them from training and leads them to the other systems of the FMA.

    It is with the above comments in mind that I have posted my rebuttals to the comments made in regards to the differing opinions of the systems reflected in these threads.
  17. Gilla

    Gilla -== Banned ==-

    I am sorry if i offended anyone. Being half Irish and half Spanish i am hot headed . So here is my point. I feel that as due to the fact we have 1 head and 4 arms there are only so many things we as martial artists can do with martial arts . So there is a certain amount of technics that are universal this does not mean they add stuff from other arts its just all roads lead to Rome .(sometimes a lot of people get lost) As a friend of mine says it's all one art. Not to mention they are all Malay arts so they are related.
  18. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    i speak in relation to fredrico ghisliero and his emphasis on the use of Euclidean geometry to guide footwork and, blade motions.
    - http://www.thearma.org/essays/Regole.htm
    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederico_Ghisliero
    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry

    once you bring geometry into the topic, you cannot help but think about how fibonacci sequences relate; overlaying circles and concentric circles with ever widening or tightening spirals in terms of movement

    examples of fibonacci sequences seem to permeate everything in the universe from the spirals on a nautilus shell to the gravitational pulls of stars, planets, etc

    geeky enough for you? :D

    more noteworthy stuff:
    Spada y daga (italian?)
    Note the word Armes - sounds and looks alot like Arnis

    GLENNLOBO New Member


    geeky enough for you? :D

    man thats well geeky.. but i'm loving it cos i just started going to number geeks anonymous
    :biggrinbo. thanks for the info, i'll go digest this later.
  20. franci1911

    franci1911 Member

    You fulfill your destiny

    You have not offended anyone. Why should one be offended. If he is doing right and he believes what is the truth why should he worry what people think.

    When you touch the weakness of the person then you expect resistance. You the subject of removing the weapons or blades from the hand or you want to take the knife from someones hand.. Then you tell the person that removing the weapon from someone hand is a grave crime because you are committing murder on your part knowing that the blade cannot be taken away from the person who is an expert.

    You participate here every now and then. This forum is intellectually an exchange program of culture and its influence to the people who learn the art diligently. As this time , weapon is a weapon. So the result is devastating with Lechon na manok . The favorite of the people in the farm.

    Your destiny and my destiny can be deciphered in one common denominator. Meaning we beleive l what we say with the the force reconn side that can help to draw the license.If you are close to the Gods you kick all the assets.

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