What is in Pekiti-Tirsia Kali System

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by GrandTuhon Leo T Gaje Jr, Mar 14, 2008.

  1. I was asked many times what differentiates Pekiti-Tirsia compared to the other FMA.

    First, Pekiti-Tirsia cannot be qualifed as a Martial Arts as presented among the family of FMA. Martial Arts is an art where all the techniques and training discipline is structured for sports. There is no institution of discipline directed to condition the mental faculties for combative application that will terminate the opposition or the enemy.

    Secondly, Pekiti-Tirsia is a fighting system that from the beginning of the training , the emphasis on the Philosophy, Culture, Traditions and customs and ideology that cleanses the mental blocks caused by non-weaponry thinking ways. All structure of training is Strategic and Tactically design for combat with the ultimate direction to destroy the enemy leaving no chances for the enemy to survive.


    Thirdly, Pekiti-tirsia methods and techniques is ancient but prepared for the modern times with the life of the past.The techniques of Pekiti-Tirsia were put into the laboratory , tested and proven effective. It cost lots of lives to perfect one technique.

    Fourthly, Pekiti-Tirsia methodology is non-coventional, unorhodox, non-regimented. Techniques are prepared against all flags, against anybody, against any forms of fighting. Regardless of style or forms of martial arts, Pekiti-Tirsia principles of non-counterablity is a form of mastery.

    Fithly, Pekiti-Tirsia discipline of Perfection is highly demanding,highly stressfull, highly design to eliminate the unfit,structured to allow a survivalist secured against all conditions.

    Sixthly, Pekiti-Tirsia Higher Education is a continuing education, the more time spent with Pekiti-Tirsia , the more things to learn as good as brand new as it was in the beginning.Learning materials are pulled from the storage of wisdom that an intelligent method of teaching , will lead to intelligent student.

    Seventhly, Pekiti-Tirsia ladder of ascension to greater heights of Mastery brings the Mastery on TRI-V Formula, Capsula Methodica, Lima -Lima mayor and minor then to the top of Pekadum Trigo.In between , the application of Contra Tirsia Dubla Doz takes preference to confuse the enemy that makes all techniques furious, sharper and deadly.

    Eightly,Pekiti-Tirsia highest form of Metaphysical practices commands the power of the mind, above all things may happened physically is unequalled metaphysically.The final solution in any fight, he who controls the fight wins.

    Pekiti-Tirsia is a unique sytem, it understands the enemys movements, control the situation , each move of the enemy's weapon is calculated accurately driven to the right angle within the comfort of Pekiti-Tirsia man of war using the Principles of Geometrical Equation.
     
  2. GLENNLOBO

    GLENNLOBO New Member

    please explain

    you say "First, Pekiti-Tirsia cannot be qualifed as a Martial Arts as presented among the family of FMA. Martial Arts is an art where all the techniques and training discipline is structured for sports. There is no institution of discipline directed to condition the mental faculties for combative application that will terminate the opposition or the enemy." my understanding of the term martial arts is that they are arts of war, Mars being the god of war. so the concept of martial arts only being structured for sport is alien to me. are you saying therefore that PT is the only combat efective FMA?if PT is not a martial art, what is it?

    "All structure of training is Strategic and Tactically design for combat with the ultimate direction to destroy the enemy leaving no chances for the enemy to survive." can you differentiate strategically and tactically in terms of this combat art?

    "Regardless of style or forms of martial arts, Pekiti-Tirsia principles of non-counterablity is a form of mastery." are you saying that PT cannot be countered? what is it that makes it so effective what is its defining quality? so PT has faced and dealt with every martial art and has answers to all the questions they might ask? how is this possible? are there principles that have cross application? what are they?

    "Seventhly, Pekiti-Tirsia ladder of ascension to greater heights of Mastery brings the Mastery on TRI-V Formula, Capsula Methodica, Lima -Lima mayor and minor then to the top of Pekadum Trigo.In between , the application of Contra Tirsia Dubla Doz takes preference to confuse the enemy that makes all techniques furious, sharper and deadly."what are these?

    "Pekiti-Tirsia highest form of Metaphysical practices commands the power of the mind, above all things may happened physically is unequalled metaphysically."what metaphysically do you do to control your mind? or can you control someone else with your mind?

    "driven .......using the Principles of Geometrical Equation." can you elucidate further? i find this quite vague and i would like to understand more of what could be a fascinating subject.

    Many thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2008
  3. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    please pardon my presumptuousness, but is it possible he is refering to the importance of the Golden ratio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio) and its relatedness to Fibonacci numbers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_Number)

    i cant help but think all this stuff is related to the fmas in principle. i guess im just a geek after all. :)
     
  4. Banakun

    Banakun New Member

    Based on the original question (What makes PTK DIFFERENT from other FMAs) and by way of implication, are you saying that ALL other FMA styles/systems are useless and crap GT?

    Please do clarify. Maraming salamat po.

    Gumagalang...
     
  5. franci1911

    franci1911 Member

    First, of all Pekiti Tirsia adopts the Traditional Principles of the Blade Culture. If you do your research ninty-nine percent of the Escrima and Arnis are mixed with Japanese, Chinese and Korean and Non Filipino arts.

    That means that through FMA you must have the Philosophy, Culture, Traditions, Customs and Idealogy. Then if you mix the Filipino Art as a Martial Arts and not as a Fighting Art, then judge what you think of the True Philippine Art as a fighting system.

    One of the mixtures of the Arnis/Eskrima is the blocking system, disarming and most of all grabbing the sticks that leads to grabbing the blade. In Pekiti Tirsia we do not grab the weapon, we don't grab the sticks. We just cut the wrist, the arm, the legs, and when possible we take a Kilo of shoulders and possibly the neck.

    That is the true art.
     
  6. viejo

    viejo New Member

     
  7. GLENNLOBO

    GLENNLOBO New Member

    how are fibonnacci ratios/ numbers related to FMA's?

    First, of all Pekiti Tirsia adopts the Traditional Principles of the Blade Culture. If you do your research ninty-nine percent of the Escrima and Arnis are mixed with Japanese, Chinese and Korean and Non Filipino arts.

    so in training with Dan inosanto, and Suryadi Jafri to name but
    2, he has not gleaned any useful techniques from them that may have inadvertently or consciously been included into PTK, despite it being a living art that is evolving...

    One of the mixtures of the Arnis/Eskrima is the blocking system, disarming and most of all grabbing the sticks that leads to grabbing the blade. In Pekiti Tirsia we do not grab the weapon, we don't grab the sticks. We just cut the wrist, the arm, the legs, and when possible we take a Kilo of shoulders and possibly the neck.

    That is the true art. would that not be presumptious, and maybe better to say that is the focus of our true arts, but other arts have validity in their philosophy. is it not said that filipino warriors cut down rattan to go to fight.. so surely the true warrior art is the art of the STICK?


     
  8. Banakun

    Banakun New Member

    Additional queries which need clarification:

    1. Pigafetta's documentation of Magellan's 1521 voyage notes Filipinos fighting both with bladed weapons AS WELL AS FIRE HARDENED STICKS. These were the "warriors" of pre-Hisapanic Philippines. So it would be safe to surmise that pre-hispanic warriors then fought with BOTH bladed and blunt weapons. Would it then be logical to surmise at the very least for them to have had techniques or approaches for both? As a matter of fact, iron ore and the ability to craft bladed weapons were a rare commodity in 16th century Philippines and that is why weapons from Indonesia and Malaysia were actually viewed to be "superior" in quality where the use of iron and metal-forging technology was much more advanced. The ready availability of the bladed implement in the form of the general utility BOLO came much later, during the SPANISH OCCUPATION.

    2. Does that mean Pekiti Tirsia has NO BLOCKING OR DISARMING TECHNIQUES? I've seen quite a lot of videos of PTK practitioners and quite frankly, they show the same blocking as well as disarming repertoire as one would find in many of the other FMA systems. And while many FMA systems do grab the stick, they also have techniques that either hit, or grab the wrist... techniques which can be applied and are generally meant to be applied to bladed encounters. So to make a generalization like that (THIS makes US DIFFERENT from other FMA) would be a tad presumptuous IMHO. I personally also train with blades but not once did I find myself grabbing the blade edge despite the fact we do that with the sticks. What do you think? By way of implication, are you saying that "other" FMA practitioners are too stupid to even know the difference?

    3. So PTK is PURE in that it has NO input from other FMA styles/systems nor from MAs from other countries. But wouldn't that be contradictory to the essence of FMA? That of being OPEN TO EVOLUTION, part of which involves assimilation and influence from others to make it more effective and relevant to the times? And isn't it the NATURE of men to be influenced and influence other men? Is it possible for people to be PURE to the point where one has NEVER been influenced by other people one way or the other? I personally have never met a man who is a total island.

    4. When you say "That is the TRUE ART!" and say "99% of FMA do this and that" then are you saying that everything else is FAKE FMA? There are only a handful of systems and styles really and many of the different FMA systems today have relationships or historical links to other present-day systems. When we put this into consideration, the remaining 1% would amount to ONLY 1 OR 2 FMA systems or styles which can be considered THE TRUE ART.

    5. What is TRUE FILIPINO PHILOSOPHY AND IDEOLOGY? Please expound on this as we have 3 Philosophy Professors in our group not to mention an Anthropolgy Professor who teaches in the University of the Philippines. So far they have been at a loss as to what is true Filipino Philosophy since Filipino Culture in and of itself is basically an amalgam of various cultural influences which makes pin-pointing a central Filipino Philosophy which encompasses the whole of Filipino worldview almost impossible. This would be a great help. What is TRUE FILIPINO PHILOSOPHY AND IDEOLOGY?

    Thanks for taking the time to answer our queries. It's just that there are a lot of things which I would like to clarify since many of the prior-written posts can be subject to many interpretations.

    Again, gumagalang...
     
  9. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    The original poster will be unable to reply during the suspension period.

    -Arnisador
    -FMAT Admin
     
  10. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    splitting triangles, circling, expansion/contraction of circular movements (spirals), etc

    i got a little numbers geekness in me, dont mind my seeming absent-mindedness, seeing connectedness in the universe and such :D
     
  11. Banakun

    Banakun New Member

  12. PeteNerd

    PeteNerd Member

    Are you guys really interested in learning anything about Pekiti Tirsia, or are you just trying to pick apart everything Tuhon says? I've been a student of Tuhon Gaje's and he is a very good teacher with a lot of knowledge. It seems like a lot of your "questions" are framed in a negative way or you are trying to put words in his mouth.

    He's devoted his life to learning and teaching Pekiti Tirsia, what do you expect him to say... obviously he thinks it's the best thing there is. He's very vocal about his opinions and he won't back down, in person or on the internet. How many other grandmasters are on this forum sharing their knowledge? He is not hard to find, if you are truly seeking knowledge from him.

    Pete
     
  13. franci1911

    franci1911 Member

    So first, of all are you practicing the art? What particular art are you practicing?

    Second, if you would, go and speak to Guro Dan Inosanto instead of assuming (you do know what they say about those who assume). To put it to your words the Gleaming was done by Guro Dan, not by GrandTuhon Gaje. If you look at The Inosanto Blend there is a great many technique that he had taken from the years he has worked with GrandTuhon Gaje.

    As far as Suriyadi Jafre, I was there where were you. Absolutely not there. I lived with both of them and I know what was what as far as Contributions. So what you will and appearantly you can here where I feel we are limited in what we can say without retrobution. But YOU KNOW what the contribution was that to me, (to put it in the words of Tim Hartman in reference to GrandTuhons postings is BS).

    A true Filipino Warrior would not go into battle without a blade. When they cut the bamboo, rattan, iron wood, bahe it was fashioned into an edge or point. Please do some more research before you make yourself out to look so foolish.

    What I would like to do is invite you to one of our seminars for you to see for yourself what we are talking about here. If you haven't experienced Pekiti-Tirsia Kali you shouldn't make judgement. Let the blade speak and the rattan interpret your questions. PANAPOS
     
  14. Banakun

    Banakun New Member

    If I have offended anyone, then my apologies. The fact of the matter is, I was trained to think critically and went to a University where "there were no wrong or right answers, only good arguments." Just like we do in the physical aspect of FMA, we look at stuff put out there and test their validity. One way of doing so is to see its consistency to reality or previous history.

    I consider myself a student of history, philosophy and culture. I am a graduate of Islamic Studies BTW. So, my interest in the subject matter is for real. If someone says, "I know what Filipino Philosophy is" then I would like to know what that person means and why he or she believes that that is it. For several years now, we have been debating and discussing on what is "truly" Filipino worldview, sans the influences of the Spanish and Americans. For one thing, most companies today rely on leadership principles as espoused by FOREIGN BOOKS. This begs the question, WHAT IS LEADERSHIP IN A TRULY FILIPINO CONTEXT? These are but a few of the things we talk about and discuss in our group.

    I hope this sheds light on where I am coming from.
     
  15. franci1911

    franci1911 Member

    First and foremost, I really need to address this title of (GT). GrandTuhon or Tuhon is the correct way to address GrandTuhon Gaje. Anything less than that is disrespectful. If you are ALL true FMA practicioners and understand Filipino Culture and Discipline you would understand this.

    Now I am not just addressing this Banakun for you alone. I have been viewing this behaviorism on many occassions and I find it to be very Disrespectul.

    Now Second, to address the Video Clip. What GrandTuhon Gaje is showing, is an equalizer. YOU cannot disarm someone with a blade UNLESS You also have a blade. For any to say or show that you can block or disarm a blade when you are empty handed does not understand blade contact tactics. I believe that this is because of the influence of other martial arts like that within the Japanese, Chinese and Korean Cultures.

    What you see GrandTuhon doing is deflecting the hand or weapon, with the use of his hand or weapon. Any disarming that comes out of it is after the disorientation of his opponant. And always with the use of weapon against weapon. Never weapon against empty hands.
     
  16. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    Nice clip. A piece of history. PTK, that is.
     
  17. Phil Mar Nadela

    Phil Mar Nadela New Member Supporting Member

    I totally agree Kapatid Pete. For a man that dedicated his life to his passion,Speaking as a arnisador and Filipino, I only have respect and admiration to Grand tuhon.
    I believe he is only trying to speak his mind on how Pekiti-Tirsia is seen and talked about by some of our members here.

    One should at least PM or even meet him in person. And if he allows you, try Pekiti-Tirsia before you judge His System. And if you feel that it is not for you, then let it be and move on.
    I don't normally state my opinion on these matters; but if we keep doing this Negativity going on, we have lost the point of the forum, to share knowledge and promote a beautiful fighting art.
     
  18. GLENNLOBO

    GLENNLOBO New Member

    geekiness


    i love numbr geekiness, i just dont see where fibonacci numbers fit into FMA. please explain (and do so with small words... its early over here lol )
     
  19. Banakun

    Banakun New Member

     
  20. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Franci1911 quoted "First and foremost, I really need to address this title of (GT). GrandTuhon or Tuhon is the correct way to address GrandTuhon Gaje. Anything less than that is disrespectful. If you are ALL true FMA practicioners and understand Filipino Culture and Discipline you would understand this"

    Let me see, how can I respond to this as a FMA practitioner/instructor and married into the Filipino culture and discipline of over 30 years.. In all my time of training in the provinces of central Luzon (primarily the Pampangan Plains) I never have heard any of my instructors state that we were to call them GrandTuhon or Tuhon.. It was either Kyud (brother) or Kyudai (sister) to our instructors to show respect in class or in public.. In respect to my teachers and after I had left the Philippines, I called them Master Reston for my sinko tiros and balintawak instructor and Kyud Conrado for my Kuntaw instructor. Master Reston based the teachings of the systems that he learned on the old estocada systems that he had the opportunity to train in. Master Reston's last estocada system was taught to him by an individual from Bamban Tarlac whose name was Viray and was the last individual that he trained with prior to his death.
     

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