What besides Pekiti would you study?

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by TuhonBill, May 31, 2008.

  1. TuhonBill

    TuhonBill New Member

    Someone recently asked me if I had studied any other arts (besides Pekiti-Tirsia) in the last ten years. I responded that I hadn’t had the time. But that got me thinking- what if I did? What else would I study if time, distance to a good instructor, etc. were not a problem?

    Here’s my list:

    1. Dan Inosanto’s Maphilindo Silat. If there is a week spot in the Pekiti-Tirsia I learned, it’s in the grappling aspect. The locks, throws and disarms in Pekiti-Tirsia are limited to those that will work against an opponent armed with a knife. Basically, this means that you have to have one hand available to counter the pulling of a second blade and the ability to see that blade coming. This gives a much smaller number of available locks than purely empty hand grappling arts like Judo and Brazilian Ju-Jitsu.

    Maphalindo Silat (MS) has many of the locks one sees in Judo and BJJ, but teaches them with a S.E. Asian flavor in that the MS versions work against an armed opponent.

    2. Kettle Bells. Not very long after I turned 40, I found that I could not lift as heavy as I was accustomed to in my weightlifting workouts without getting injured. Last year I started playing around with a few kettle bell exercises and found that I could get a good workout without injuring myself. I’m now 47 years old and have made it one of my goals to take kettle bell classes when I find a good instructor.

    3. Yoga. As you get older, injuries from many years ago (even ones you thought had healed completely) begin to flare up and cause problems. Many older instructors who I respect greatly swear by yoga as a way to keep flexible and help the healing of old injuries. (Note to you young guys-it’s very rare that an injury heals 100% “good as new.” Don’t train so hard that you are likely to get more injuries in training than you are ever likely to get in real life).

    Well, that’s my list. What’s yours?

    Tuhon Bill McGrath
  2. SuperToe

    SuperToe Member

    My List

    My list isn't what I would study, it's what I'm studying/teaching now.

    1. Pekiti Tirsia Kali
    2. Russian Sambo/Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
    3. Kickboxing/Muay Thai Kickboxing
    4. Fong-Wei-Do

    The Pekiti Tirsia Kali and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is from Inst Phil Gelinas, also I will be transfering to Mr. Gelinas for my Muay Thai Kickboxing Training also.

    If I were to study another system it would have to be Kuntao Tekpi Silat. Silat is something that I always loved cross-training in, but have only been exposed to a tiny bit of Maphilindo Silat.

    Again the silat would hopefully come from Inst Gelinas, as I consider him my main Instructor in the martial arts .


    Total Martial Arts Center
    Poulin's Fitness Solutions
    Last edited: May 31, 2008
  3. wes tasker

    wes tasker New Member

    Much like what Mr. Poulin wrote, my list is the arts that I actually currently study.

    For as long as I can remember I've always been fascinated by the stories regarding Chinese Internal Martial Artists. Especially the fact that so many seemed to be healers as well as effective martial artists well into old age.

    The first martial art I studied was a classical Japanese Jujutsu system with a small healing arts component. That really got me hooked on the healing arts. Then I spent some time studying briefly with Prof. Wally Jay and some of his top students and I was exposed to the massage art of Danzan-ryu called Seifukujutsu. Finally I became a Massage Therapist and have gone on to study Zheng Gu Tui Na under Frank Butler and Tom Bisio.

    Also, in the last couple of years I have had the incredible good fortune to be able to begin studying both Xing Yi Quan and Ba Gua Zhang. So my current list is:

    - Pekiti Tirsia Kali
    - Xing Yi Quan
    - Ba Gua Zhang
    - Western Bodywork / Zheng Gu Tui Na

    And honestly - I can't imagine being any more happy or fortunate....

    -wes tasker
  4. Danny T

    Danny T New Member

    The Training Systems I am involved with:
    * Pekiti-Tirsia
    * Wing Chun - a great compliment to Pekiti due to the very close range, directness, and dynamic attacks.

    * Muay Thai Boxing - conditioning and tempering like little else. It also has some rather effective kicks and elbows.

    * Judo/BJJ - throws, takedowns, ground work and again conditioning. If you think you are in good condition get on the ground. I am certain you will find you are not as well conditioned as you think.

    * Tai Chi - As Tuhon Bill has stated as we age all the old injuries return to haunt us. Tuhon Bill is a few years my junior and is just beginning to feel the effects. Tai Chi is my easy relaxing warm up so I can slowly limber the joints and muscles. It also works my leg strength in ways weight training simply doesn't.

    * my strenght training for the past year has been kettlebells. Great core strength as well as limb muscle training. When I started kettlebell training what I was most surprised with was how aerobic it was.

    What I would like to get more training in is Silat. I was able to do quite a bit with Pa Herman Suwanda prior to his passing and have done very little but for a couple of seminars with Guro Dan I since.

    Tuhon Bll stated, "(Note to you young guys-it’s very rare that an injury heals 100% “good as new.” Don’t train so hard that you are likely to get more injuries in training than you are ever likely to get in real life)."

    This is excellent advice! Our instructors, coaches, and trainers always talked about protecting the head which is certainly a good thing but seldom press the issue as to hands, elbows, knees, and other joints. Tuhon when you get to that Five O age and beyond it makes one wish he had been a bit smarter. All the years of stick strikes and punching the heavy bag has taken its toll. I strongly recommend and require students wrap their hands and wrist when using the heavy bags and the use of padded gloves when stick sparring. Use the shin guards when kicking against a training partner. Train smartly.

    Danny T
  5. Shonin

    Shonin New Member

    For FMA, the two systems I would most like to study are PKT, and/or KI. Probably also San Miguel, although the art I currently train in is a close offshoot. Unfortunately I do not live proximate to anyone teaching them.

    As I get older the two arts that most contribute to my well-being are the Tai chi and yoga.

    The yoga (in this case Astanga) is a huge developer of core strength, but more importantly works on correcting alignment and undoing a lifetime of spinal flexion (bending forward, hunching, ducking, that sort of thing.) What my body badly needed was to recover the ability to do spinal extension (essentiall bending backwards -- although for me that meant straightening up) and the yoga helps that enormously. It is, however,a steep learning curve.

    As for the martial, I would have to say it is the tai chi. A famous Chinese fighter once said that (disaproving of hard makiwara training) that the ability to feel is rather more valuable than the ability to hit. For me at least, nothing has contributed to my tactical (in the sense of contact) ability like the tai chi. Additionally the way it approaches throws is, for me, much superior to the aiki arts I studied for a long time. Other's mileage may vary, but this is my experience. The notion of the internal is not easy to grasp, and I am no expert, but it adds a dimension to one's training that is found nowhere else.

    Similarly, becoming a massage therapist (myofascial work) has been invaluable in discovering that the human body is far more wonderful and complex than just something to strike at or with. Knowing the anatomy and physiology also helped a lot with tactical ability.

    And despite a trashed left knee, as someone said above, I couldn't imagine a happier place to be.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008
  6. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    My other main interest in MA is Russian Systema. It provides a different method of movement, hence giving a complementary workout with FMA. It is also close to my cultural and spiritual background, and in our club there is a solid time dedicated to its health practices.
    Besides, I am always involved with some phases of MMA, grappling, clinch work, a bit of MT, but I find grappling most interesting.

    In regards of those fitness/health prevention methods, I find the Ginastica Natural (Brazilian yoga) to be rather good, as well as some of Pawel Tsatsouline's programs...
  7. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    Assuming that I could find some extra time I would be interested in adding the following arts to what I already do:

    Western fencing

    I view these not so much as "new" arts but as logical extensions to what I currently practice.


  8. Kailat


    Greetings, Just would like to add my interest as well.

    As I live in a town where there is nothing but Karate, TKD, and now MMA none of which really interest me any more.. I have practiced and studied Karate mostly for the better of 20yrs. But over the yrs I've done extesive traveling once a week or so to a couple of hours away to study other arts. I've found that if I could of continued staying on the path of the Russian Systema (Al McKluckie-Ft. Wayne) and Serrada Eskrima (Kim Satterfield-Ft. Wayne) would be def the two I'd of enjoyed continuing in.

    But the 2.5 hour drive got hectic and expensive after awhile, with work, fees, gas, food!!

    The others had a have the opportunity is Mande Muda Silat, SIKAL TACTICAL (guru Ken Pannell - Dayton, Oh)

    those would be my personal prefferences...

    Maybe one day!!
  9. Jack Latorre

    Jack Latorre Siyam

    Hello All--

    I'm pretty much exclusively Pekiti-Tirsia. I've had some exposure in some other arts...Wing Chun, Muay Thai, Silat, Shooto...I have my hands full with Pekiti-Tirsia. Getting any good at one thing for me while being a parent of little ones is my main challenge.

    If time permitted, perhaps the following:

    Western Fencing (Spanish school)
    Ba Gua Zhang (probably my top choice)

    I continue to look at and evaluate other systems, but more to see thier relations to how I manifest my Pekiti-Tirsia...why things are done one way and not another...how certain motions are cultivated...et cetera. We're all one big family anyway....at times, estranged, but family none-the-less.


    Jack A. Latorre
  10. selfcritical

    selfcritical New Member

    Is this something that has evolved over the years? The dumog i've seen seems liked a very streamlined version of standard, high-percentage silat moves, and it definately doesn't seem like it's very small any more. Maybe my instructor got shown more Dumog because of his background as a Jagabaya in Mande Muda?
  11. wes tasker

    wes tasker New Member

    From what I understand, Tuhon Leo undertook a study of some regional styles of Dumog and when he returned to the US, started teaching it at his seminars. I know he combines this with the standard Pangamut and the combination he often calls Dumpag. Of course I would imagine that the Dumog he teaches either fits cleanly, or has been modified to fit within the rubric of Pekiti Tirsia's mechanics, principles etc.

    Someone with a current knowledge of PT-GO would know better than me. I'm just going on what I've read etc.

    So I believe (to answer your question) it has developed over the years. But again, take that with a grain of salt as I practice PTI Pekiti Tirsia and have had no exposure to Tuhon Leo and his current teaching curriculum.

    -wes tasker
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008
  12. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    left words out because of thinking of Hegel while I'm posting...


    Do you mean that your PTI curriculum is not a whole truth, but will become a whole truth as it marches towards itself through history?


  13. TuhonBill

    TuhonBill New Member

    Hi Steve,

    Marching towards yourself sounds like a quick way to get nowhere (he said, with his tongue set as firmly in his cheek as Steve).

    My goal for PTI is to teach everything I know, but rely on those I teach (most with a good deal more experience in other martial arts than I have) to get together and make improvements on the system. Much like Conrado and his brothers did after they got the basic system from their father. Leo used to tell us that the goal of his grandfather and great uncles was not to preserve the techniques of their father, but to destroy them. What could not be destroyed (readily countered) by the techniques they learned from other systems was kept. The best techniques from those other systems were put into Pekiti-Tirsia as is or modified so that they would fit the principles of Pekiti-Tirsia.

    Remember folks, the techniques in the Pekiti-Tirsia system, and even the system itself, is meant to be a tool for your use. It's supposed to be YOUR servant, not the other way around.

    Tuhon Bill McGrath
  14. wes tasker

    wes tasker New Member

    That's the geist of it, yes......... :)

  15. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    Martial arts as theology, now that's an interesting thought...

    Thesis, antithesis, synthesis....hmmm.


  16. wes tasker

    wes tasker New Member

    That's what I thought when I read Tuhon's reply - but I opted for the geist comment instead... Now I'm trying to resist bringing Kojeve, Barth, or Tillich into the mix... Although I think we may have taken this thread a little off course :lookaroun

  17. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    Charles Hartshorne...in which case we could argue that Pekiti was not creatio ex nihilo but creato ex materia. Add a discussion of intelligent design (or if you wish, the argument from design) and we'd have a real pot boiler going on here.

    But I agree we've taken this thread way off course...


    Last edited: Jun 2, 2008
  18. TuhonBill

    TuhonBill New Member

    What else?

    So this guy is walking down the street and sees French philosopher Rene' Descartes standing on the corner.

    "What's you thinking about Rene'?" asks the man.

    "Nothing," replies Descartes. And poof, he disappeared.

    Tuhon Bill McGrath
    "Cogito, ergo sum"
  19. rshawtx

    rshawtx New Member


    That's a good one Bill. Have you ever used the following excuse for not turning in your Latin homework: 'Canis pensum meum comedit'. :)

    To answer the original question though, I would probably do Krav Maga, Kajukenbo, Silat. Yes, definitely Yoga for flexibility. This is of course time and finances are not a consideration. :)
  20. Shonin

    Shonin New Member

    I, for one, should like to know exactly how many angels can dance on the point of a pinu....; No, I won't go there.

    And since we are not shying away from the abyss of the silly: Here is an early reference to FMA blade work:

    One, two! One, two! And through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    (Just how does one say "fruminous bandersnatach" in Tagalog?)

    Last edited: Jun 2, 2008

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