VMA Balintawak clip

Discussion in 'Balintawak' started by VMA Man, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. VMA Man

    VMA Man New Member

  2. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Neat! Thanks for sharing!
     
  3. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    Here ya go, VMA Man. i made the clip readily accessible here for ya...
    - thats a very nice clip, i really like it
    - here's another one of my other fave balintawak clips. Being an Amboy, I can only decipher about 1/3 of what the instructor is saying. However, i can pretty much figure out what he is demonstrating by following his movements:

    [yt]6fWPeRdsE8o[/yt] [yt]1fjFU5t4XIY[/yt]
     
  4. VMA Man

    VMA Man New Member

    Thanks pguinto,

    Love your work, glad you like the clip. Nice clip on Henry Jayme there too!!

    If I'm lucky enough to get back to Chicago I'll look you up bro (I've got an Ex-Pat mate there), I love Twin Anchors & Heaven on Seven (& the microbrews LOL), great town.
     
  5. Scott Brailey

    Scott Brailey New Member

    Yo VMA man, I'm the guy on the right for the first minute or so.

    Apologies for the footwork people, I tore ligaments in my ankle snowboarding three weeks before this was filmed so I was still quite tentative on it. This part of the clip was from a Filipino Festival held in Sydney in 2007. I'd also had 4 San Miguels and a pound of Lechon by this late stage of the afternoon so apologies for any wobbly boots too LOL.

    Scotty
     
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    A good reminder that it's very hard to judge someone via video clip!
     
  7. Scott Brailey

    Scott Brailey New Member

    I had only been training twice a week (2hrs per week) for 8 months at this stage too. So much for the grouped method hey!!
     
  8. Robert Klampfer

    Robert Klampfer New Member

    Off-topic, but...

    Any of you VMA folks connected with the person using the name "VMAbalintawak" on YouTube?

    Robert
     
  9. FalconAgentx44

    FalconAgentx44 -== Banned ==-

    VMA Man is both YOUTUBE username: VMABalintawak09 & VMABalintawak

    VMA Man IS both YOUTUBE username: VMABalintawak09 & VMABalintawak

    THE ONLY REASON WHY I AM POSTING THIS HERE IN FMATALK IS TO USE THIS MEDIUM TO BRING THIS MATTER ABOUT. IF THIS PERSON BELIEVE THEIR TEACHER JOHN RUSELL IS BETTER THAN ALL THE ORIGINAL SENIOR BALINTAWAK INSTRUCTORS WHO LEARNED FROM ANCIONG BACON, TEOFILO VELEZ, JOSE VILLASIN, AND OTHERS, THEN SO BE IT, "MY VERY BEST OF LUCK TO VMA Man, I'M GLAD YOU FOUND A TEACHER WHO CAN INSPIRE YOU SO."

    YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINION...... BUT PLEASE DO NOT GO ABOUT POSTING NEGATIVE COMMENTS ("TROLLING AROUND") ON YOUTUBE AND THE INTERNET SAYING TABOADA IS NOT GOOD, HE DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO CLIP AND SO ON & SO FORTH. DO NOT GO AROUND "BAD MOUTHING" THE OTHER BALINTAWAK MASTERS AS WELL.

    THAT IS VERY DISRESPECTFUL! THESE SENIOR INSTRUCTORS & GRAND MASTERS OF BALINTAWAK WORKED HARD, THROUGH BLOOD, SWEAT & TEARS THEY HELPED PRESERVE THIS BEAUTIFUL ART. YOU ARE VERY UNGRATEFUL AND THAT IS A FACT! RESPECT THE ONES WHO CAME BEFORE YOU MATE!!!


    P.S.

    I WILL NO LONGER CONTACT THIS PERSON THROUGH ANY MEANS, WHETHER IT BE HERE ON FMATALK OR OTHER VENUES, SO ANY QUOTE HE POST HERE THAT HE SAYS IS FROM ME WOULD BE TOTAL LIE. I REST MY CASE.

    I PAY MY RESPECTS TO ALL OF YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

    - FalconAgentX44
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __

    Evidence Exhibit #1:

    MY OWN message to VMABalintawak09 which I posted on the same youtube clip which he NEVER "approved" and posted:

    From: FalconAgentX44 [videos (0) | favorites (0) | friends (0)]

    Sent: January 28, 2008

    Message: Your teacher John's "agak" is good. My "agak" would slightly differ from John's, I would throw in more variation. I agree with "juramentado" If that part of Australia can use more good Balintawak teachers like John, then I am willing to migrate.

    footnote: *juramentado was another youtube username who posted on the same video clip.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___

    Evidence Exhibit #2

    Message I received FROM VMAbalintawak09 sent through my YOUTUBE account last January 29th after my posting to his video clip, and I quote:

    From: VMAbalintawak09 [videos (1) | favorites (0) | friends (0)]

    Sent: January 29, 2008

    Subject: Show me your agak bro??

    Message: Hey mate, I am VMA Man from FMATALK. You can also see some of my youtube videos under username VMABalintawak. Show me how your "agak" is better than Johns and I'll post your comment. Yeah your agak. Not your instructors, your agak. Who do YOU train with?
    I've trained with Taboada personally and know John is better than Taboada 100 times, I have students who trained directly under Gaabucayan and Tabimina and they also feel the others PALE in comparison to John. Even the famous Velez brothers from Cebu whom John has learned from cannot compare. The only person that comes close is Henry Jayme and Timoteo Maranga, well that old chap is dead now, Maranga I mean. Crikey! May he rest in peace. If you have better bro, show me(if you can), Then I'll post your comment. Until then.....
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______

    Evidence Exhibit #3

    subject is this video clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fWPeRdsE8o

    comments lifted from YOUTUBE on this video clip:

    PinutiKeris (4 days ago) could we know the name of the Feeder chap ?? and which Balintawak lineage is this ?

    VMAbalintawak09 (3 days ago) Sorry PinutiKeris what do you mean by Feeder Chap? Regarding Lineage: John Russell is our head honcho. Studied thru Henry Jayme thru Teofilo Velez thru Timoteo Maranga. John has also trained under Raymond(Moonie)Velez and Celso Amora Mabalhin(Who trained under Anciong Bacon and Jesus Cui).

    juramentado (6 days ago) cool.....u need balintawak instructors in australia..i want to migrate...is it possible?
    help me°! ;-)
    __________________________________________________ _____________

    Evidence Exhibit #4

    subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47uyw...eature=related

    see related comments on this YOUTUBE video:

    Comments & Responses

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    VMAbalintawak (1 week ago) Show Hide

    If Robert actually started to clip there is no way any of this could happen. This is watered down Balintawak

    jA7 (5 months ago) Show Hide

    thank u GM Bobby T!
    thnx for posting...

    creasy8 (5 months ago) Show Hide

    are those random movements or choreographs?

    smoogie18 (7 months ago) Show Hide

    INSANE

    View all 4 comments

    __________________________________________________ _____________

    Evidence Exhibit #5

    subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STOVXMCVZVc

    Comments & Responses

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    tagacebuako08 (4 days ago) Show Hide

    VMA Balintawak pag practice usa pag-ayo parts...kay siguro ko layo ra kaayo imo nahibaw-an kay sa kang Bobby.

    Ikaw realist1972...membro ka sa Rabid Dog Arnis ??? hehehhehe! Ayaw mo sigi panaway --- AMEN

    VMAbalintawak (1 week ago) Show Hide

    wildcat2210 no offence but try finding a REAL Balintawak teacher. One that teaches you to clip. It's for your own protection mate. Bobby looks great because his training partners don't know how to clip and control his attacks. It's a Balintawak FUNDAMENTAL he appears to have forgotten!!!


    wildcat2210 (4 weeks ago) Show Hide

    This is GENUINE Balintawak Cuentada Escrima, I am a student of Grandmaster Bobby Taboada. He is the nicest man in person, and is definitly a great example for other martial artists. He's the best, no questions asked.

    __________________________________________________

    END.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2008
  10. Soncen

    Soncen Teovel Balintawak

    The teaching of the Teovel Balintawak Arnis

    Hello everyone,

    I just want to share some personal opinion about the teaching in the Teovel Balintawak Arnis. As a teacher of the art we follow the teaching method of Mr. Velez which he imparted to his twelve commissioned teacher (Bobby Taboada is one and the other is my teacher Teofilo V. Roma). Mr. Velez never teaches to clip because it would only expose the fighter to a judo lock and easy bare hand counter attack.

    There are other people aside from the twelve who studied under Mr. Velez although most of them completed the lessons but there are still some who did not finish the complete lessons up to the advance level. Teachers of the Teovel Balintawak or the practitioner can easily detect the big difference in some demonstrations and you will notice only group # 1 was applied and all the rest is at random palakaw only.

    I don’t know but if those were all that some had learns then I can only say that the Teovel Balintawak self-defense they learn is only about 10% although they could be 100% accurate in their other martial art know how. This is only to inform of the correct teaching of the Teovel Balintawak Arnis and no malicious intention.

    Wilson
     
  11. Robert Klampfer

    Robert Klampfer New Member

    I don't know about all of that other stuff that's been mentioned since I posted. I guess FalconAgentx44 took my post to be a springboard to go off on a tangent. People can say what they want. I don't care much about that. Telephone calls have already gone around between the U.S., Philippines and Australia about what's been said and I'll do well to leave it in the hands of the people who have been slandered. Those sorts of things get worked out behind closed doors; not on the Internet. That's enough about that...

    I just want an explanation from 'VMAbalintawak' of what this "clipping" is supposed to be and why it's supposed to be so spectacular. I've been around more Balintawak than just Bobby Taboada and I've never seen nor heard of anyone else making a big deal of anything called "clipping". I'm hoping that someone here is close to 'VMAbalintawak' and can get me an answer.

    Robert
     
  12. teovel'sBalintawak

    teovel'sBalintawak New Member

    No offense just a reminder.. Velez balintawak have clippings and all techniques or applications have counters it just depends how you execute and how good your timing is. In groupings like group 1,2 and 5 are preparatory patterns design for clippings. Clipping applications are not encourage to beginners because it can stagger the flow ( palakaw). But later in the advance clippings will also be emphasize when the students reaction and sensitivity are already very good. Clipping application is one of balintawak's trademark the term " kumpitkumpit or suyopsuyop. For more explanation go to Ayala Cebu Business Park every Sunday and look for Monie Velez my teacher he explain to you the details of the clipping application.

    Best Regards
     
  13. teovel'sBalintawak

    teovel'sBalintawak New Member

    No offense just a reminder.. Velez balintawak have clippings and all techniques or applications have counters it just depends how you execute and how good your timing is. In groupings like group 1,2 and 5 are preparatory patterns design for clippings. Clipping applications are not encourage to beginners because it can stagger the flow ( palakaw). But later in the advance clippings will also be emphasize when the students reaction and sensitivity are already very good. Clipping application is one of balintawak's trademark the term " kumpitkumpit or suyopsuyop. For more explanation go to Ayala Cebu Business Park every Sunday and look for Monie Velez my teacher and he will explain to you the details of the clipping applications.

    Best Regards
     
  14. garrotista

    garrotista New Member

    Clipping

    Clipping techniques is applied by the feeder and defended/countered by the student in Group 1 of the Teovel Balintawak agak. Group 1, which is termed Lifting and Clearing, teaches the student how to defend & counter against grabbing/holding of the garrote. Clipping is a type of grabbing/holding. Group 1 is the students first intro to defending/countering clipping, then can be applied in all Groupings (as a variation to that specific Grouping), with the exception of Group 4. The usual follow up techniques to a clip is a strike: by stick, elbow, head, hand, butt, thrust, etc. Another purpose of clipping, is to change the tempo & momentum of the agak. By changing the cadence of the agak, the student learns not to anticpate, and the feeder also learns (but thats another topic). For the record, Velez bros, Nene Gaabucayan, Tabimana group, & Bobby Taboada (as seen from video) has clipping in the agak/teaching method. Clipping is inserted in the agak at the prerogative of the instructor. By teaching this technique the student learns how to defend/counter, the feeder learns how to apply and counter the counter. There is a counter for every technique...I wish I knew them all!
     
  15. Robert Klampfer

    Robert Klampfer New Member

    teovel'sBalintawak and garrotista:

    Thanks for the replies. I know the concept of the clip. However, I'm thinking there must be a difference in terminology between what we call a clip and what 'VMAbalintawak' calls "clipping". It seems like a technique all its own since he makes such a big deal out of it. I'm hoping that he'll put something on YouTube to show us all what it is he's talking about.

    Robert
     
  16. garrotista

    garrotista New Member

    last word on clipping

    Robert,

    After reading comments posted by VMAbalintawak, and watching VMAbalintawak video clips, his understanding of Balintawak is like the substance of his words: unintelligent, and ignorant. Analyze the movements in the video, and you see both student and teacher with impaired body mechanics: clumsy, awkward, and handicapped foot work. When the feeder is disarmed by his student, he continues the agak as if he's holding an invisible stick. Absolutely no adjustment of body mechanics, and counters. Now the agak is barehands vs. stick, the feeder should have (among other things) ducked under or #12 side step to avoid the student's counter strikes. Not stand in front of the strike and block with an invisible stick. Or, close the gap, and end the agak. The perfect circumstance to demonstrate the feeder's understanding of how the agak can develop one's bare hand skills & body mechanics. In conclusion, read and watch VMAbalintawak, and be humored. Do not expect to have an intelligent discussion or a mastery demo of escrima/arnis. Another clipping technique, is the use of the punyo to trap / control your student or attacker's stick, perhaps leading to a disarm. This is inserted in Teovel group 5. Clipping is a universal technique, and is not exclusive to Balintawak.

    regards to GM B. Taboada
     
  17. free2flow

    free2flow New Member

    I agree, in fact I remember seeing GM Felimon Caburnay in a video did a technique which they call/label as “magnet” which is similar to a version of what Teovel Balintawak practitioners call “clipping”. When GM Caburnay did this technique, his partner will be outbalanced going forward and sometimes will fall on his knees exposing the partner’s back of the head for GMs abaniko strikes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2008
  18. Soncen

    Soncen Teovel Balintawak

    Mr. Velez had researched well on the teaching method for easy learning and application and he developed the group method of which I can agree that it could be a steppingstone for the application of the clipping (what I mean to say in clipping is putting the opponent’s stick or arm or the head or the empty hand in the armpit or in between forearm).

    But Mr. Velez did not teach or adapt the clipping technique (a universal technique according to some) but he only follows the style of Anciong the inventor of the Bakintawak style and enhance the teaching method, hence his brand of Balintawak was called TEOVEL taken from his own name.

    In Snatching, there are lots of clipping techniques you can apply but the Teovel Balintawak practitioners can show how easy it is to be stick-locked, so anyone who clip would only give the opponent an opportunity for an easy counter-attack although re-counter could always be applied.

    But Mr. Velez once said why prolong the fight and give your enemy an opportunity to defend and counter, when you can finish the fight in a shortest possible time by way of the “cuentada” technique.
     
  19. deke

    deke New Member

    Vincent
    Thanks for your précis of the VMA video. Where is yours so we can offer it the same scrutiny?
    "Analyze the movements in the video, and you see both student and teacher with impaired body mechanics: clumsy, awkward, and handicapped foot work."
    Are we talking about the first few minutes of video? Instructors footwork seems fine. Simple and balanced, isn’t that what Balintawak footwork is all about?
    “When the feeder is disarmed by his student, he continues the agak as if he's holding an invisible stick.”
    I think you missed the point. Body mechanics is unchanged when the instructor loses the stick because isn’t the "stick only the extension of the arm." Although in a real fight (if you have the time) you might change your body mechanics the instructor is just trying to emphasise a point.
    “Absolutely no adjustment of body mechanics, and counters.”
    That’s the point.
    “Not stand in front of the strike and block with an invisible stick.”
    Look closely, instructor used a forarm to block. Valid technique at close quarters in my opinion.
    “the feeder should have (among other things) ducked under”
    Duck at close quarters you’ll end up eating a knee. Do you mean slipped which is a more appropriate boxing (and Balintawak) term. Ducking also moves the centre of gravity closer to the front foot (poor body mechanics).
    Lets face it, your critisism isn't about style or techniue it's just about the fact you have taken offence at the comments of an overexuberant student of another lineage.
     
  20. deke

    deke New Member

    Robert

    Clipping is clipping. Bobby Taboada's Balintawak comes from the same lineage as the guy in the VMA video.

    Another important note is that the guy in the VMA video trained with Bobby Taboada in the late 1980's (before anyone from the US knew who he was).
     

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