Tuition Fee

Discussion in 'General' started by junior eskrimador, Apr 13, 2009.

  1. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    I usually charge a flat fee of 15.00/hr for private lessons, that way I can pick and chose who I want to train.. Some people think that even that is too much for the island economy, yet we have people who pay in excess of 150.00 a month for the MMA training by some inexperienced people who have very little if any international experience.. In the past, I was involved with the local martial arts community in the tourney scene and arranging seminars with named martial arts celebrities of past.. I also threw the largest tourney on island with minimal effort, primarily dealing with my own students and the network of instructors within the association that we had set up to get some kind of regulatory council on the martial arts scene of the island.. The tourney was thrown as invitation only, yet some of the other schools managed to get in under the guise of their interest in being part of the organization.. I had to throw one family out because of comments made to myself about being a racist and not counting points that were not connecting from their "little johnny" was throwing on one of the other participants of the tourney.. When the comments started, I told the family that was making the racial comments that if they didn't quit their comments, I would have them escorted off base and permantenly banned... They made one or two more comments and by that time I had security escort them off base.. That is how the tourneys go out here and with the attitude of getting the ego for paying for self induced images of grandeur because you train with one school and pay top dollar for what you think is quality martial arts is a big joke.. As P.T.Barnum once said, there's a sucker born every minute and it seems the martial arts commercial base shows what the market image is capable of conjuring up in the realm of instructor fees
     
  2. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Brit with a stick

    I work as a Plasterer in the building trade and if I charge $225 to $300 for a days work no one would blink an eye lid, but if I asked for the same amount for an 8 hour one on one private lesson people would be shocked. Yet with the private lesson there is more chance of my body being damaged, especially if teaching someone who does not know what they are doing and spends a lot of the time getting it wrong with no control.

    Yes with plastering they may get new looking nicely finished walls and ceilings but they would not know how to do it themselves and in time the walls and ceilings will become damaged and without maintanance would need doing again.

    But with the private lesson they would get some life saving skills and knowledge that would stay with them for the rest of their lives and they in turn would be able to pass it on several times over for a fee to their students which if they charged even a token amount in time, not only would they get their money back, they would make a profit too. And as tme goes by unlike a plastered wall these skills would improve and not need relearning.

    So when people say too expensive, I say expensive compared to what.

    I actually dont charge that much for a class, £5 ($7.50) per person but even if I charged $1 for a class there would always be someone who would say it was too expensive but there would be even more who would say why is it so cheap? What is wrong with it that he has to charge so little?

    You have to find a fine balance in that A. You can price yourself out of the market and B. You can under price yourself and people will not place any value on it.

    How much annual fees would you pay to join the local Tennis Club and Golf Club? How much do you pay for Fishing or Hunting Licences each year? How much do you pay for the Gun Club? All of these fees are so you can just participate in any one of these activities, if you want to learn these skills from a proffessional well, that cost extra and a whole lot more than taking a martial arts lesson. And these are fees that millions pay ever year and dont think twice about it.

    Are we as martial artists that less skilled and that much less thought of that we should charge any less than all of the above or are we already undercharging for our years of hard earned knowledge?

    If you really want the knowledge someone has to offer, money would not be the main priority on your mind, if it is then you dont really want the knowledge do you?

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  3. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    The majority of the people who compain alot about the price of tuition being too high is because they feel that there are other alternatives...

    Everyone needs a plasterer, everyone needs a contractor, but people have this false sense of security of "when would I ever need MA?" mindset... That they feel that they might use it once or never use it at all in their lives...

    And some are just not that not into it...

    Also budget is a big part of the problem... $200 a month or even $100 a month is alot... It's an extra investment... They don't look at it as that their lives are in danger...

    It's all psychological really... You can't blame them...
     
  4. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Brit with a stick

    No you cant blame them, but if they think there are alternatives I tend to tell them to go to the alternative as do I really want to teach someone who is more concerned about the price as opposed to the information I can give them.

    Dont get me wrong, I charge far less than most people and if I can make the rent for the venue and have a small group of hard core students I am happy, I will not sell my soul for the $ sign like a lot of people I know over here do but I will also not give it away either as I spent a whole heap of my hard earned cash, time and effort gaining the knowledge I have and I dont see why people should not put in the same effort as I have and still do if they want to get better at it.

    Yes people do it for different reasons and I take that into account, but when I see that they are more willing to waste money on things they dont actually need, this convinces me more not to just simply give it away.

    I had one guy recently who said well if i come 4 times a week that is costing me £20 a week and that is a lot of money. I said, do you like a beer, Yes of course he said. Well a beer here is around £3 per pint and I am sure you dont go out and have just one pint, No he said he can usually spent £40 to £50 in a session.

    Well lets look at your options here I said, you can either cut back on the ammount of classes you do or you can drink less, the choice is yours. He chose the beer. So really he would rather have a beer than train so I would rather not waiste my time with him.

    I like a beer or two as well, but if it comes down to a choice of beer or training with someone who can give me some sound skills and knowledge, I go for the training every time.

    So again I say expensive compared to what?

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  5. Robert Klampfer

    Robert Klampfer New Member

    Hmmm, that would be a tough choice... :beer2: or :whip:

    Robert
     
  6. snake

    snake New Member

    when someone pays 100 plus for lessons what sort off jobs are they doing.are they lawyers. plasters doctors.who breed money.what about the normal bloke in the street. do only a select few get too train
    also i have a personal trainner he charges 25 an hour.if he tried to charge more he would go out off work
     
  7. Robert Klampfer

    Robert Klampfer New Member

    Just to be clear, we're (well, me at least) talking about U.S. dollars, not GBP or Euros. The market conditions in the UK are likely not the same as in the U.S.

    Do only a "select few" get to train? Well, that term seems to cast an ugly taint on things. A taint that I don't think is really appropriate. Those who can afford to do or purchase certain things do; those who can't, well, they don't. Some people drive Aston Martin's while others drive Hyundai's. Some people wear Omega's while others wear Casio's. And there are a lot of people who are somewhere in between. For the average household, $100/month can usually be found somewhere. As Pat said, cutting back the beer budget, as well as fewer meals out, stop talking so much on the mobile phone, etc.

    Going back to some economics: at $100/month, assuming a profit margin of 30%, and a average enrollment of 100 students, a school would net $36,000 per year. That's not exactly going to get one a spot on Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous. In fact, that's right about the median income in the U.S.

    Robert
     
  8. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Brit with a stick

    So 25 an hour, Once a week which is 4 times a month and you are paying 100 per month. 10 of those and he is earning 1000 a month, So how is charging 100 an month for lessons so difficult to accept??? And if your talking GBP and not USD as we all are then you my freind would be paying around $150 a month of 4 Private lessons?

    So $100 USD plus for lessons, when you look at it this way you are already paying more than that, so what sort of job do you have?

    Oh by the way Plasterers dont breed money, we work dam hard for what we earn and the reason we charge what we do is because sometimes we have to sit at home and try to find the work, we dont get holiday pay, sick pay or any of the other benefits that people get by working for someone else. No work no eat. So really it balances out and is all relative.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  9. Kailat

    Kailat KAILAT KOMBATIVES GROUP

    I personally feel anyone who can break even at all teaching martial arts is doing good. ANYONE who can make an extra dollar profit has a good business background, or in a great geolocical area. Because martial arts just does not sell around here where Im from... I've slowed down and given up on it around here for a while...Im waiting to move to a larger metro city and try again then.
     
  10. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Truth be told, there is no excuse if one truly wants the knowledge....there is not to far to drive for lessons...ETC...If one truly wants the knowledge he or she will do what they must..cut corners where they can find them. I have been in this game for 29 years..never once was price an issue..and I am as blue collared as they come. I struggle with bills..I have family etc...but guess what..I do and have done what is necessary to maintain my training and traveling to obtain the knowledge. For me driving 90 miles one way three times a week was hard...it took money and time away from family. In my mind it was worth it..I wanted that knowledge and I got it. I stopped spending money on lunch everyday and I quit going out for a time. In the long run it was better for me and I obtained the knowledge.

    As a teacher, I expect my guys to be prompt on their dues and to always contact me if they can't make them, for any reason. I am a man, and if you come talk to me like a man there can and will be something worked out so that you can continue your training. Remember folks..the art I give for free..it is my time that is being purchased.

    So if you want the knowledge..if you crave it..if it seethes at you to go and get it..well, there is always a way..make it happen!
     
  11. Kailat

    Kailat KAILAT KOMBATIVES GROUP

    In 25yrs of doing the martial arts I've myself fallen short time and again on training. My job and family seems to get in the way more today than did in the past. With us only being able to get together on Saturday mornings it really makes it hard as the weather starts to get nice because i'd much rather be on the lake, and camping or just out doing things w/ the family!!! I know i've told my students the same thing. never let martial arts consume your time away from your family or work.. it will always be here..So were really hit and miss...
    I can remember when i was a young teenager I was training sometimes 5days a week at 3 different schools in 3 different cities. I did travel as far as 75miles one way to class 2 nights a week.. My dad would pay for me to go to seminars, and training camps... But back then his job allowed for him to do this for me. I'll never thank him enough for that awesome gift.. But, today w/ my life my jobs unfortunetly don't offer me the same free time or unimbiguos schedule to allow me time free. Hell I rarely get a weekend free anymore and when i do, I wan't to spend it w/ my son doing things he enjoys' and beleive it or not, martial arts is not one of them.. He has no desire to learn it. he loves camping, hiking, boating, Football, baseball, girls..lol being a boy... but i try to put a little training into it.

    I agree with what Mike says, though it is the art you give away.. its your time and knowledge you charge for.. I've always given my training for free : )
     
  12. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Brit with a stick

    And when people say 100 USD or GDP is too much to pay in one month for training with good quality instructor, take a look at this little peice I found on Facebook. Wow!

    Here is the link http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=107431385077&topic=6268

    And here it what it say's:

    Matt Fiddes Academy is the largest Martial Arts franchise in the world, home of the best of best of the best Martial Artist ever to live. Matt Fiddes, The Owner, The Founder, The Creator, The Head Instructor, The Boss & The Master is a 10x World Champion him self & a 13th Dan in Tae Kwon Do all be for the age of 26.

    His schools are renowned to hold the best, most experience instructors & his students are at such a high level that most of them reach 2nd Dan black belt before the age of 13 & are persuaded to quit school & open up their own branch & teach for the Matt Fiddes Academy expanding his mighty Martial Arts Empire.

    Come & join our 5 year contract today only £90 a week & none of our students have ever failed a grading. Check out our special joining fee offers this month

    Bronze Joining Fee £200 includes: Uniform & Matt Fiddes T-Shirt

    Silver Joining Fee £400 includes: Uniform, Matt Fiddes T-Shirt, Gloves & you will become an automatic yellow belt

    Gold Joining Fee £600 includes: Uniform, Matt Fiddes T-Shirt, Full Sparring Gear & you will become an automatic Blue belt

    Platinum Joining Fee £1400 Uniform, Matt Fiddes T-Shirt, Full Sparring gear, 1 month free training & you will become an automatic 1st Dan Black belt with a Tae Kwon Do teaching certificate eligible in every Matt Fiddes Club

    For more information & news on Master Matt Fiddes & his Empire the Matt Fiddes Academy

    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1392369286&ref=profile#/group.php?gid=36427478762&ref=mf
     
  13. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Pat, I can deal with those fees...

    What do you say we start up an international arnis association (yep another one) in which we can charge the following fees for membership tuition..

    Level 1: Puting olisi- (beginning member) 250.00/Mo- membership gets 1 rattan stick with a minimum of 3 nodes, water bottle and crying towel for the hard training

    Level 2: Silver olisi (intermediate member) 400.00/mo- membership gets 1 rattan stick with 4 nodes minimum, training knife, water bottle and stick bag for the 2 classes/weekly

    Level 3: Gold olisi (advanced intermediate) 500.00/mo-membership gets 2 rattan sticks with 4 nodes minimum, training knife, water bottle, towel, stickbag and 2 classes/weekly with one private 30 minute class

    Level 4: Red Kamagong ( guro candidate) 699.99/mo- memberships gets 2 rattan sticks with 5 nodes minimum, training knife, water bottle, towel, stickbag and 2 classes/weekly with one private 30 minute class in sinawali training and a 10 minute phone consult with the head of your particular system

    Level 5: Huling madrigima (last warrior) 1000.00/mo- member ships gets 2 rattan sticks with 5 nodes minimum, training knife, one bahi dulo dulo, water bottle, towel,stickbag, 2 classes weekly with one 30 minute class in sinawali and tabok toyok training along with a 15 minute phone consult with the head of your particular system

    You are guaranteed to make a blackbelt in your particular system after 5 months of training in level 5 pending all fees are paid and you renew your contract for another 6 yrs while bankrolling seminars with people who train in take my dough as primary customers..

    You get a 2 percent discount back guarantee if you enroll 25 students a month into your branch of attended school Hell, with rates like this,

    Im surprised that there hasn't been other schools try the same thing..

    Just read some of the martial arts magazines to get further details on this once in a life time opportunity and get recognized rank in your particular source of FMA as taught by Bubba Redneck from Toadstool alabama

    Send $10.00 for further information to the following address

    Bubba's Fulinyu Martial Arts Academy
    5555 Deliverance Road
    Toadstool, Alabama 36113
    Paypal also accepted: Paypal address: Fulinyu@wataripoff.net
     
  14. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Brit with a stick

    I think maybe your underselling us here, but it's a start, we can get them in with these cheap prices now and always reveiw them with a veiw to doubling them in the near future.
     
  15. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Sounds like Matt Fiddes needs a wood shampoo and a kerambit conditioner. This guy has some set on him....lord almighty!
     
  16. WuLord187

    WuLord187 Albo Kali Silat Student


    In the state of WV $100 for training is lot of money for younger folks in college or who are living in apts who don't have room for gym equipment except for a perfect pushup. Pretty much, the people in this State that can afford training for $100+ have salary paying jobs or access to a money pot (parents, sugar momma, or sugar daddy). In all essence price of training doesn't prove the value training because in truth what matters is the skill and the ability to teach from the instructor, and the will/detemernation/talent of student.
     
  17. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Brit with a stick

    I totally agree, but if you have a good instructor he will be willing to accomadate the area and price it accordingly, I get irked when people say it is too expensive as usually those people would say that no matter what you charge and all too often they are using it as an excuse not to turn up to training. I have had people tell me I am too far away yet they only lived 2 or 3 miles up the road. And then when you see some crap instructors over charging I say expensive compared to what?

    It does not matter if it cost $1 or $100 if you have no value on the information offered to you it will still be too expensive, if you really value it then it's cheap.

    Best reagrds

    Pat
     
  18. yosefalan

    yosefalan New Member

    ..thank you for finally mentioning location as a factor! I live in LA...$36k wouldn't cut it. Luckily i have another job and I teach people in the park!

    Having said that, the Inosanto Academy charges less than $180 for unlimited classes all day and night with high level instructors in many different arts and it is located in one of the most expensive regions in the country (Santa Monica, CA) Consider that when trying to value assess your own expenses for martial arts training.
     
  19. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><


    No T-shirt? ;)
     
  20. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Brit with a stick

    OK you can have a t-shirt for a nominal fee of only $300, they are usually $700 dependng on your size. But only because we need your cash now!
     

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