The "Datus" of Modern Arnis (or:I am confused...)

Discussion in 'Modern Arnis' started by Mono, Apr 28, 2006.

  1. Mono

    Mono Member

    Dear all of you...

    I just wanted to post a Question about the "Datus of Modern Arnis" assigned by Remy Presas.

    Just recentliy I stumbled over a Website and some Artikels wich I fould somewhat confusing.

    As far as I know, there are the following People who have been assigned the Rank/Title of "Datu" by Remy Presas:

    Datu Shishir Inocalla – (the first appointed Datu in the 1980s)

    Datu Kelly S. Worden(in the 1980s)
    Datu Ric "Bong" Jornales (of Arnis Sikaran) (in the 1980s),
    Datu Dieter Knüttel (1996)
    Datu Timothy J. Hartman (2000)
    Datu David Hoffman (2000)

    Then I came across the following Site:

    where "Datu Michael Morton" is being metioned several Times...

    Other refrences to Mr. Morton I found were on an Advertisement for a Videoseries:
    Filipino martial Arts (Escrima, Arnis) is known for its fluid and powerful empty hand and weapons striking techniques and for its intricate system of locks, takedowns, and joint manipulations. Arnis is one of the oldest, most complete, most complex and devastating of the martial arts systems of the Philippine Islands. These combat systems are said to have started among Filipino warriors prior to the Spanish occupation. Learn in this DVD series the devastating Single stick, Double stick and the rarely seen empty hand System of Cuatro Puertas (Four Doors). Unlike the vast majority of Filipino systems being taught in seminars and via video media, Master Morton instructs in DETAIL close quarter self defense. Master Morton has Black Belts in Arnis, to include the title DATU from the late Grandmaster of Modern Arnis, Remy A. Presas. He also has Black Belts in Bushidokan Karate, Juijitsu, and has trained in Muy Thai in Bangkok, Thailand and also with Alberto Fererro in Brazilain Juijitsu. Master Morton is a retired police officer with years of practical street experience as well as a former infantry medic in the U.S. Army. This series is all GO and no SHOW. We know you’ll enjoy it.

    Well, I was hoping someone could give me some further Information about this since I did not find any other record of him being a Modern Arnis Datu - is the Rank mybe from a different system or Teacher - I know Mr. Morton is closely connected to Modern Arnis but then, why is ther no other Information on thsi Subject?

    The Second person I was curious about is Mr. Halford Jones - who is also using the Title of "Datu" (as can be seen on the following Link)
    (5th Row of pictures)

    I did not find any Information about where he got the Title from either - is it a "Modern Arnis" Title? Or is it from a different System?

    I dont know many other FMA Systems that use the title of "Datu" so I am a little confused...

    I hope someone can give me some more Information about these two people.

    Thanks a lot!


    P.S. I hope no one gets this wrong, I am not trying to Blame anyone to use "false Titles" or anything like that! I do not know either of the two Men; I am only trying to get some further Information about this Issue!
  2. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Darth Vindicatus Supporting Member

    The only recognized Modern Arnis Datus are the 6 you mentioned:
    Inocalla, Worden, Jornales, Knüttel, Hartman and Hoffman, though Bong Jornales no longer uses the title. (He's GM of his own system, and goes by "Kat Puno" instead.

    I believe Halford Jones's Datu ship is through a different system.
    I have seen a few other individuals claim a Modern Arnis Datuship from Remy, however haven't had any verifiable confirmation on when/where they were awarded. At least 1 "death bed" award is rumored, however the recipient of that doesn't claim the title.

    See also:[Datu]
  3. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

    Michael Morton was with us in 1982 at Remy's first camp. I havent seen him in 20 years I know he crossed over to Pekiti for a while. If he is doing his own thing then he can do as he pleases, as far as document my 3rd degree black belt was awared to me on a train in 1983 or 4 in Germany all I have is a picture of my hand with Remy's signature that said Lakan Tatlo. I have no idea where my certificate for my fifth degree is or if I even got one!!

    Remy gave a lot of people rank that many people do not know.

    If Mike is anything like he was 20 years ago I would say train with him if you can, he was a darn good Karate guy back then.

  4. Mono

    Mono Member

    Thanks for all the Answers so far...

    I'll keep it in Mind - but I believe it wont happen in the near future (Since I live in Germany and there are no trips to the US possible for me in the near future :( )

    Anyway, I am looking forward to more Information on this topic :)

    Thanks again!

  5. Buwaya

    Buwaya Senior Member

    Halford Jones is a loyal student of Arnis Lanada. Some of Porferio Lanada's American students suggesting that they use muslim titles. Thus "datu".
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    This is my understanding too. Does the IMAF-Schea group have an official statement on this? They're the ones who inherited the records (such as they are), I believe.

    Yes, he is a well-known FMA practitioner and author but not a Modern Arnis player.

    I have seen this too--twice, I think. While one can't prove what did or didn't happen in a one-on-one conversation with the Professor, I do not believe that any such claim has wide acceptance by Modern Arnis practitioners.
  7. monkey

    monkey -== Banned ==-


    i know this might clear up a bit for those who never trained in the early days 1970s-80 here is a url to go to.Go to martialtalk then click on serch enter ok who is tom carnes.Youll get seveval pages of how Remy did verious rakns the this should give you 4 to go to.The 4th will exsplain quite a bit for ranks & end any dismay of who is tom carnes plus there is a this will also help.Theres your answere to Datu & other ranks you may not know of.
  8. Mono

    Mono Member

    Both Links are Dead :(
  9. monkey

    monkey -== Banned ==-


    Mono Im not to savey on copmutors as Im on 1 at the collage & it might not let you in but if you re type insted of just click from my post it might go.There is many pages on Datus ect. htt:// try just to type that.It should go. the http.//www.martialtalk.comforum...ghlight+carnes try that just type & it should go
  10. Apollo

    Apollo Administrator

  11. monkey

    monkey -== Banned ==-

    Datu of Moder Arnis

    Appolo Mr Hubbard just got my dvd showing my ranks & demos.I gave him Rites to show clips of Presas line Kuntao-Arnis.You might want to check it when it loads.Enjoy Guariand & Master Tom Carnes.I hope you found all the info on Datu ect you needed in case others ask.I dont know if any one has their old commitioner certifiates yet.Most i knew who had it threw it away.
  12. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Is there a complete list of who was a commissioner?
  13. monkey

    monkey -== Banned ==-


    Ia far as I know here are some of the people that got or threw away-or I was told have commitioner.Ed Farris-Haliford Jones-Leonard Trigg-Tom Carnes-Bruce Jutchnick-Ed Shear.I know there were a few others.It was a little paper not much to look at.So most threw it away.
  14. monkey

    monkey -== Banned ==-


    Any questions I will say you are free to post or call me 530-892-8954.Ill be more then happy to tell of the times with Remy.If you please -Here is a quote from Proffesor-This art is Beautiful.I wish all to learn & know -You Know!
  15. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Darth Vindicatus Supporting Member

    There was a reference in an issue of Black Belt from 1978 that listed Bruce Juchnik as Commisioner under MAFP. (Modern Arnis Federation Philipines), though I don't have the exact issue listed. Also, the name Rick Almaney (sp) was also mentioned in that conversation.
  16. monkey

    monkey -== Banned ==-


    Thanks for the info May be some one can get a copy & post it on Martial talk & FMATalk
  17. Companyman

    Companyman New Member

    Bruce Juchnik (sp?) was with the Professor when he gave his first classes in the USA. The first classes were at Jerry Greathouse's House of Gung Fu in Fresno, CA. Bruce and Tim Berg (Instructor at Greathouse's school)were the Professor's assistants at that time, and I know for the two years I spent in Fresno around the school and the Professor, they were the most advanced the Professor had at that time. It would make sense that Bruce was an early Commissioner. Also, I thought it was Rick "Malaney", but I could be wrong. This would have taken place in '76 & '77

    Larry Sloan

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