Teovel Balintawak Self-defense system

Discussion in 'Balintawak' started by Soncen, Apr 28, 2006.

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  1. Soncen

    Soncen Teovel Balintawak

    There were demos on video about our FMA the Balintawak style. The Balintawak martial art was divided into two system of instruction, the ungrouped method from the original and grouped method of instruction introduced by Mr. Velez, but just the same knowledge you will learn when you mastered it, although I prepare the grouped method as I started it in this way. Those demonstrations of Balintawak in video were a drill-training exhibition of the advance lesson displaying holds and repetition of figure forms varying the tempo and delivery of strikes.

    The purpose of which is for student to get used on lifting-clearing or removing the holds to counter-defend on most probable takedowns or grappling techniques that could be most possibly be applied by the enemy. Succeeding strikes, counter-strikes and re-counter could also be busted, but all strike attempts were to be in controlled manner in order not to hurt the student and all counter-attacks or return-strike of student were also in controlled manner. Power blows, kicks, double or triple attacks were only to be used to an actual fight with an enemy. There were also a drill exercise on power blows, pushing and pulling and double or triple attacks taught by Anciong Bacon, but those were secrets in our self-defense fight that cannot be divulged in public viewing.

    Our organization (the Teovel Balintawak self-defense club in Mandaue City, one of the twelve chapter division component of the Teovel Balintawak group International, known to be the yellow chapter club division under the leadership Teofilo V. Roma) maintained the standard secrecy enforced by our Grandmaster Teofilo A. Velez the teacher of my teacher Teofilo V. Roma as he once said that our martial art should not be gone to violent people.

    Mr. Velez was student to Atty. Jose Villsin the student of Venancio (Anciong) Bacon the inventor of the Balintawak martial art.

    Wilson R. Ceniza
  2. Toasty

    Toasty New Member

    Greetings Mr. Ceniza, I enjoy your posts on the other Balintawak board as well.

    One question though, I was under the impression (by doing much research & what is commonly stated in many media foms) that the "grouped method" was devised (introduced) by Joe Villasin, who then taught it to Mr. Velez?
    It appears as though you are stating above that the "grouped method" of instruction was developed by Mr. Velez. Is this the case, or merely a typo error?

    BTW - I do not train in the grouped method.

    thanks in advance
  3. Soncen

    Soncen Teovel Balintawak

    Grouping method of Instruction

    Hello Rob,

    My teacher Teofilo V. Roma knows the real story and everything that is happening in the organization because he is an active member and very close to Mr. Velez his teacher and he knows the truth about the grouped method of instruction, which Mr. Velez had innovated and demonstrated it first to his children for testing the effeciency of instruction and then he introduced it to Atty. Villasin his teacher for approval as a sign of respect before proceeding to use it to other students. Atty. Villasin found it easier for a teacher to impart the skill and would be easier for the student to cope up moves in preparation for a tripping, pushing and pulling, double and triple attack, stick locks and opponent’s arm control, speed, power and precision of counters and re-counters in the “cuentada” lessons. Atty. Villasin was impressed with the idea and he made some arrangements on the order of application such as figures and forms that would be included in the group # 1, #2, #3, #4 and #5.

    The honor was credited to Atty. Villasin out of Mr. Velez loyalty to his teacher because that is what he had always been doing all his life to honor and respect his teacher. There is only one thing that they differ in opinion and ideas where Atty. Villasin a loyal follower to Anciong Bacon keep his promise not to publicly teach the art for the reason that it might be copied by other people and Mr. Velez at first had followed the same principle. But on the passing day he changed his mind for he believed that their martial art must be known throughout the world, especially when on that moment their were foreigners taking videos for documentary about our Filipino Martial art and he was one of the invited guest to demonstrate the Balintawak self-defense system.

    Mr. Velez explained the reason about the change of his mind, but Atty. Villasin was not been so happy of this development. Mr. Velez only proceeded and goes on his own way, but every time he was interviewed by ordinary people or any people from the media, he would always mention the name of Atty. Villasin to honor him as his teacher and that everything he learned was coming from him in his desire to appeased him in his grudge to Mr. Velez. Media people and even ordinary people come to him to congratulate right after every exhibition show that Mr. Velez had just performed, believing that the grouping method of instruction was his own innovation. But for me this is now the time that the entire world may know the whole truth, there’s no reason of telling a lie here.

    It cannot be denied that like other student of Anciong, Atty. Villasin had also contributed a lot in the propagation of the Balintawak martial art. But it is Mr. Velez who work very hard in promoting our martial art by demonstrating it in an exhibition shows so that it may be shown to other country and that people outside the Philippines may know that there is another kind of Filipino Martial art such as the Balintawak, which was invented by Anciong Bacon. Mr. Velez principles encouraged other student of Anciong Bacon to come out and present their knowledge of the Balintawak such as Teddy Bu-ot, Arnulfo Mongcal, Timor Maranga and etc., and even the children of Atty. Villasin (Ver and John) are now in the internet promoting their own Balintawak self-defense.

    I understand that the children of Atty. Villasin believed that their father was the first to innovate the teaching of the Balintawak into grouping method and I expect reaction from them. But I think whether it is Atty. Villasin or Mr. Velez who innovated it first the important is that we must be united as brother Balintawak and I believed that Atty. Villasin being a teacher to my Grandmaster has always to be honored as one of the best Balintawak teacher of all time to his close friends and relatives and best remembered for defeating Delfin Lopez in a duel. Delfin Lopez was a feared arnis fighter in his time.

    Wilson R. Ceniza
  4. Toasty

    Toasty New Member

    Wow, new developments!!
    Thanks for the very wll worded & respectful reply.
    Hope to have more conversations with you regarding Balintawak Eskrima.

    BTW, my teacher is Ted Buot.

    thanks again
  5. SAL

    SAL Junior Member

    Hello Soncen

    I am interested in knowing what your recollections are of Remy Presas' role in the Balintawak tradition.
    I trained Modern Arnis with Professor Presas and I am training Balintawak in Ted Buot's lineage.

    Sal Todaro (Cebu West - WMAA)
  6. Soncen

    Soncen Teovel Balintawak

    Hello Mr. Sal Todaro,

    Thanks for posting here!!!

    In the conversation of my teacher Teofilo V. Roma with his contemporary teacher, I would usually overheard them talking about Remy Presas especially during a gathering. According to Roma my teacher, Remy Presas has really had ended trained with Mr. Velez in the 1970’s but had stop shortly after he begrudged the Velez brothers, Eddie Velez the youngest of the siblings was so much had personally affected, he felt offended in one occasion when Remy had done something that for them is wrong, not acceptable to the Velez brothers. The grudge was too personal and not related to martial arts. Remy had to stop training to avoid altercation with the Velez brothers and he was unable to finished even the basic lessons in the Teovel Balintawak teaching.

    Presas transferred training to Timoteo Maranga but I heard that he did not follow the teaching of Maranga but instead he was only inventing his own style that he called the modern arnis. Presas martial art style cannot be called a Balintawak because according to some who had seen his exhibition show is too different from our Balintawak style though did not claim either that his style is Balintawak although he trained with Timoteo Maranga. There was one occasion when Remy had demonstrated an exhibition show here in Cebu, but after the show Drigo Maranga son of Timoteo Maranga was complaining to Remy and tell him that it is not the way his father had taught to him.

    Those were stories that I only overheard about him here in Cebu, as I did not know or see him personally. Several people also had desired to train with his modern arnis style as they must be thinking or had seen it most effective than our own, so I may say that it would only depends upon on the individual’s taste and personal desire and everybody was entitled to their own opinions and dislikes. But for me I believed that his short stint in the balintawak is not enough for him to be called a Balintawak practitioner, as he did not even finished the basic lesson of the Teovel’s teaching and he did not follow the Maranga’s teaching granting that he finishes all the lessons of the Balintawak from him.

    Modern arnis is a good martial art but I think you are the best person to differentiate it from the Balintawak style because you had trained in both style. No offend to the Modern arnis followers this is only my honest disposition.


    Wilson R. Ceniza

    Teovel Balintawak Self-defense Club
    Mandaue City, Cebu, Philippines
  7. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

  8. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

    Professor Presas actually based alot of his Modern Arnis ( self defense) on Balintawak, he trained for anout 2 years with GM Anciong and from and ten about 4 years with both Moncol and Maranga First Timor Maranga and his blend of Balintawak and personal family style, then he spent a number of years with Moncol and his blend of Balintawak Moncol was important to Professor Presas because he was left handed as was Professor....Gm Buot, and even GM Cannete' of Doce Pares say that Professor was one of the better Balintawak fighter to come out of GM Bacons Liniage.

  9. Cruentus

    Cruentus Tactician

    A lot of respect goes to Professor Remy Presas, though, in that he never claimed to teach Balintawak formally.

    He learned from many Balintawak masters, but would not teach Balintawak formally as he felt that his Balintawak was not a pure representation of the tradition. According to more then one source, Professor Remy promised Noy Anciong that he would not teach Balintawak because he was unable to complete his training.

    Even much later, after Professor was established and very popular in the states, some of his students in Michigan (Rocky being the main one; he can back this up) had asked if he could teach them Balintawak. Remy told them, "If you want to learn Balintawak you go to Ted Buot. This is because what I have is not pure..." Professor Presas recommended many of his best students to Manong Ted; like Rocky Paswick, Jaye Spiro, Jim Power and members of his club, and Tim Hartman to name a few.

    This is very noble. In the cut throat business of martial arts, not many other teachers would be as honest about their Balintawak background, or be as noble as to recommend some of his best students to train with another instructor. One has to give him credit where it is do, as he certianly gave credit to other masters when he was alive.

    Also, Manong Ted as well as other Balintawak players respected Remy as a fighter, regardless of what Balintawak he had. This is also very important to note.

  10. Cruentus

    Cruentus Tactician

    By "main one" I meant that he was the first one to be recommended by Prof. Presas to Buot. I believe that was true, anyways.
  11. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

    Paul you are right about Remy being loyal to GM Bacon. When ever he taught me Balintawak he would say this was Moncols stuff or Temors stuff. When we found out Ted was in Michigan back in 1982 Remy begged Ted to start teaching me so that I could get the pure stuff. I think GM Buot liked it to becuase keep in mind that Remy trained with a lot of Balintawak blends because he also want to learn techniques that would work against Balintawak. So GM Buot wuld have a good time when I would try one of Remy's techniques against his pure Balintawak, and we would work on how to counter what Remy learned to counter the pure Balintawak. This is why Remy incoprerated so much block and lock and and jams to his Balintawak because he noticed ANciongs people had problems with it. Now fast forward 30 years and I was asking GM Buot how to counter Remy's block n Locks and jams......This was some of the best training I ever had..... Years before, because I was one of the few Modern Arnis guys who got along with Gm Gije I would do the same with them I would learn a counter from one then ask the outher how to counter it, it was a lot of fun......

    But back to Remy he always said in private and then later in about 1986 to the public that Balintawak is what made him a fighter.

  12. Soncen

    Soncen Teovel Balintawak

    Hello Rocky,

    Thanks for some good information you have posted. What you’ve heard directly from Professor Remy Presas own story or from any other source would also be possible. But I hope I would not be misunderstood, Noy Anciong never had mentioned the name of Remy Presas as one of his students in his usual conversation with my teacher Teofilo V. Roma and I did not hear any rumors here in Cebu about Presas being badly beaten by Delfin’s nephew (possibly I only missed the information).

    Cebu City is only a small place where everyone would know each other’s activities especially in the martial arts community, and the news of any events would easily be circulated around. Arnulfo Mongcal teaches the Balintawak in his home Province in Misamis Oriental in the south particularly in Cagayan de Oro City and it would also be possible for Presas to train with him because Cagayan is just twelve hours ride by ship from Cebu. Remy Presas was living in the town of Hinigaran, Province of Negros Occidental in the west from Cebu Province a six-hour travel by a bus to the port in Dumaguette City, Negros Oriental and navigate by sea in a small boat for two hours to reach the port of Santander in Cebu Province and travel by bus again for almost three hours to reach Cebu City. Presas come to Cebu for the purpose only to learn the Balintawak’s way of self-defense fighting when he hears the news about the efficiency of the art, but his training with the Teovel’s system was only so short. He also trained with Cacoy Canete of the Doce Pares Arnis and to Noy Timor Maranga, but he is not teaching the Balintawak’s way because he was not trained to teach the art as he did not completed the knowledge of the art but only learn a little from every teacher that he had gone thru added to his own knowledge in martial.

    Remy Presas had won several tournaments in Karate but never use the little that he knows in Balintawak because our style is not acceptable to the Karate tournament’s rules and regulations (if he would insist in using the Balintawak, then he would surely loss in foul trouble). Balintawak made him to be a fighter and I think that is true, I heard a story about his fight against a man whom had abusing a certain young lady. That man a sugar cane plantation worker in his hometown of Hinigaran was allegedly a martial art practitioner whom he confronted for such malfeasance, but the man reacted differently causing him to use his knowledge in Balintawak and he was able to subdue him in a short while and from then on he was made popular in the whole province of Negros Occidental for his courage and knowledge in Self-defense fighting. There were rumors here in Cebu that allegedly he was only spying how the Balintawak’s way of fighting be applied in his research for martial arts to counter-defense to carry on his plan to be a father of Modern Arnis, but I did not heard him tested his Modern Arnis style to any Balintawak practitioners here in Cebu. He only had a great respect to every one of them in gratitude to his achievement in the field of martial art where the Balintawak had contributed a lot in his modern arnis popularity.

    I would like to believe that he was able to find a counter-defense on the Balintawak’s way considering his long research and rehash of his Modern Arnis system of fighting though I still have some reservations, block n locks and jams could hardly be applied to a seasoned Balintawak practitioner in a real combat (juego todo) fight. I have read some of his books and I have noticed that some articles in it would not match to what I heard in reality, but I understand that, that it is his own way of doing things to project his image and everybody was entitled to their own ideals. No offend to the Modern Arnis followers all I was saying is only rumors around the circle as I did not witness all his activities here in Cebu and I did not met him personally. It would also be possible that others are only inventing stories to discredit him because of his growing popularity although for me personally I have no doubt that all I have heard is true and very credible, but I would accept if anybody could present a more credible story honestly than my own. I hope to be a friend to all. May God bless all our endeavors and us!!!


    Wilson R. Ceniza
    Teovel Balintawak Self-defense Club
    Mandaue City, Cebu, Philippines
  13. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

    It was Delphanes nephew that Remy beat up, so Dalphane Wanted to beat up Remy.. This Story comes from GM Buot who is cousin to the guy Remy beat up and Gm Buot is also a nephew to Delphane.

    GM Buot acknowledges Professor Presas as a senior to him in Balintawak, when Ted started to train with Anciong Remy had already left.

    In fact here in the U.S very few people ever heard of Balintawak, because Professor never spoke of it or taught any techniques from it, until the early 80's when he taught me Moncol and Maranga's method, which is actually Remy's blend. However Remy never claimed to teach Original Balintawak since most of his training was with Moncol and Maranga which he openly admitted. In fact when Remy was training with Anciong, anciong had not even put Abecedario together yet, I tought Professor Abecedario in 1985. Then in 1983/4 we started showing a few little things here and there at seminars. Once Professor started to tell people about Balintawak, people started jumping on the ban wagon, you would not beleive how many people I ran accross back in the 80's that claimed to be doing Balintawak. Most had no Ideal what Balintawak was. GM Buot always told me when I met these people to not give them a chance to even move.

    At any rate I realize the truth can get destorted from time to time which is why I have learned to take things with a grain of salt, but in most of Remy's Balintawak stories Gm Buot seems to remember things the same way. It was also their brotherhood in Balintawak that Brought Gm Presas and GM Toboada together. I realize they had a falling out but nonetheless it was Balintawak that brought them together.

    As far as Remy's Modern Arnis please remember that Modern Arnis is not a stick fighting art! He develpoed it for Self Defense. Modern arnis is absolutely no match for Balintawak in a stick duel. Professor always refered to his art as the Filipino art of self defense. If trained properly Modern Arnis can be an effective stick fighting art, but that level is seldom reached, here in the States maybe a handful have reached this point and most of them have other Stick training or at the very least have gone to other stick fighting seminars, or a tremendoud amount of private training with Professor.


  14. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    In fact, the first time I ever heard of Balintawak was in the late 80s at a Michigan camp, when Rocky was there and someone told me to check out his Balintawak techniques. I assumed initially it was a striking style of Modern Arnis like ocho-ocho, banda y banda, etc.
  15. Soncen

    Soncen Teovel Balintawak

    Hello Rocky,

    Thanks for the information. But I am very sorry Remy’s name did not appear in the 1950’s and 60’s although it is also possible that I missed the information. I know the story because he had been a student to Mr. Velez my Grandmaster and the teacher of my teacher Teofilo V. Roma and I always overheard them talking about some of the students that had once been training under them, that includes the name of Remy Presas. Mongcal’s and Maranga’s Balintawak are original because they are a direct student to Anciong and if he learns the Balintawak from them, I think he would also be teaching the original Balintawak and because you are his student then you know the style in the original but if he only learns a little then what he taught to you is only a little because one cannot give more than a little of what he had. For Noy Teddy I cannot speak for his personality because I did not see him personally although I heard him to be one of the best students of Noy Anciong. Remy Presas although had not completed the training in Balintawak as I heard about him here in Cebu has a great respect to the people in Balintawak, he was even very generous to them and that was great of him being a loyal friend and he treated Bobby Taboada very will their in the U.S.A. I appreciate Noy Remy Presas being a good person as a whole, only that there were time when got mistake with the Velez family whom I think is not intentional that started with the misunderstanding but those were the days that had already forgotten and their friendship have been long ago had restored back to normal. I only mentioned it now to clarify things to let other people know of what had been transpired here in those days.

    You are mentioning about arnis and I think I would have to tell you something about it if you wouldn’t mind. Arnis was not only a stick-fighting art, it comprises the kind of self-defense fighting that are using a bare hand combat, kicks, banging, judo locking, head banging, twisting joints, holds, take downs, throwing, biting, spitting, stick blows, bolo wielding, knife fighting and firearm defense at close range and etc. All I have mentioned above are all the component of Balintawak arnis, in short the broad meaning of arnis especially in Balintawak is a complete self-defense fighting. The word arnis here in Cebu was derived from the English word HARNESS and it all started during the Spanish period here in the Philippines where the Spanish authorities banned bringing of bolos and Kampilan and any bladed weapons in public and the Filipinos were prohibited to practice self-defense. But the Filipinos continued to practice in secret usually during nighttime in the middle of moonlight away from the watchful eye of the “Guardia Civil” and they are using a stick to conceal their activities. In a fiesta celebration Filipinos were conducting a stage drama presentation an entertainment show called Moro-moro. The story in the drama depicts the conflicts between Muslims and Christians, the stage preparation was well-decorated in colorful fine linen cloth and the presentation comes where the protagonist in a part of action thriller episode who wore a colorful costumes are fighting using a weapons called a Kris for the Muslim and a Bolo for a Christian but only represented with a rattan stick. The fight scenes are also played in bare-hand fighting, daggers, kicks and grappling and the whole presentation with the beautifully well-decorated stage preparation called harness in which Filipinos pronounced it as ARNIS.

    Stick fighting in our Cebuano dialect was meant to be a “BINUNALAY” derived from the Cebuano word “Bunal” meaning to struck the opponent with a stick and if they are using a bolo it meant for us in Cebuano dialect as “TINIGBASAY” derived from the word “Tigbas” meaning to slash out to inflict severe wound. If the protagonist were fighting without weapons in their hands it mean for us in Cebuano dialect as “SINUKMAGAY” derived from the word “Sukmag” meaning attack using its bare hand and if using kick blows it mean for us “PINATIRAY” or “SINIKARAY” from the word “Patid” or “Sikad” and all this as a whole we called it ARNIS in our own dialect. Stick fighting principle was based on in bare hand combat and the stick is only an extension to the arm and besides stick is an object that is more painful when it hit than bare hand and the offender will not feel any pain in his hand. In the training of arnis we usually teach first the stick fighting so that when the student learn to use the object masterfully, it would be much easier for the practitioner to use empty hand now that there has no weight being placed in his hand. So therefore if you could have mastered in the art of stick fighting then you could be masterfully good in bare hand, because if you can masterfully holds, grapple, locks, throws kicks, blocks and parries with stick in your hand then how much more easier is it for you when you have your both hands working together with your both feet. The only disadvantage in bare hand combat is that you will feel the excruciating pain in your hand when it hit the opponent’s teeth or the bony parts of the body. I hope this explanation would be acceptable to the people out there as this is really what the Filipinos particularly we Cebuanos are meant to be about arnis.

    Rocky, I appreciate of you being loyal to your teacher and that is a mark of a good follower. But if you say that Modern arnis is not a stick fighting art, then I would say to you that Balintawak arnis is not only a stick fighting art but a complete martial art and Remy Presas knew that, that is if only he completed the lessons in the Balintawak Self-defense system. Other martial artists have their own unique self-defense system, but the Balintawak is also a unique one for us because we have the complete line of defenses. Good self-defense fighting needs to have good training and drills for the mechanics of your skill to master your craft, but better self-defense is to destroy first the defense form of the enemy and force them to expose themselves for an easy prey, inflicting them with severe injury is part of our defense mechanism as a severely injured or a dead enemy could no longer be able to harm you. However the best self-defense that I really would like and yearning to do all my life and project it to all my students is to stay away from trouble, avoid altercation with people, refrain from insulting, trash talking, bragging and self-edification. The final lessons that I can only teach to my students and bring it wherever they would go is the humility, respect, honesty, sincerity, understanding and forgiving because that is also what I have learned .

    I think you are right when you say that the truth was getting distorted as we can see around there were so many truths that are being published. I thank you for this very warm discussion, I have learned a lot from you and I hope you could still post some good information here. May God bless all our endeavors and us!!!


    Wilson R. Ceniza
    Teovel Balintawak Self-defense Club
    Mandaue City, Cebu, Philippines
  16. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

    I think you might be misunderstanding what I am saying about Modern Arnis...... First my background on Arnis and Eskrima...I started Pekiti Tersia Arnez ( as it was pronounced back then ) When I was about 8yrs old. The instructor Roberto Ancog was going to make us fight full contact with no pad as a test after about a year of training WE WERE only 8 to 12 years old....Needless to say he was kicked out of the Karate school he was teaching at and I never saw him again. about a year later I started Villibra's Kali under Sifu Jim Clark. In 1975 I met Remy by older brother would take me to seminars when he was in town. In 1982 I became a personal student of GM Presas he lived with my family off and on for the next almost 10 years he had his own bed room at our house, it was where he would go to get away from people who would bug him for rank and what not. Often times he would disapear for 3 to 6 months at a time and NO BODY new where he was, his older students will vouch for that......well he was at our house training me and spending time with my father a former Katch as Katch Can Wrestler and a Judo Master...... In 1982 he sent me to Gm BUot to get the traditional Balintawak because as I said before he never completed it. From about 1984 on Professor and I did mostly Traditional training he liked the challenge and he fast stick play...we had a lot of fun...unfortunately we had a falling out in the 90's and never really reconciled GM Buto tried to patch things up between us but it never really worked.......So at any rate I think I have a very good understanding of what Modern Arnis is and its back ground, including the arts of Crossada DeMano, and Palis Palis ( which is more of a Silat art ) at any rate what I was trying to put accross was that in Balintawak we try to make the student a "Professional" Stick fighter and Eskrimador someone that can fight another skilled fighter.

    In Modern Arnis the primary focus is on basic self defense, how to defend yourself against the ordinary thug that trys to hit you with a stick or tire iron, or what not. I have know Idea about how Modern Arnis is tought back in the Philipines, I am sure that it is more combative, as is the way I teach it.

    At any rate if you ever played with Remy hard and did actual free flow sparing you can see without a doubt the Balintawak influence. His method of grabbing jamming and control was all developed as a way to work against Original Balintawak which as you know does not grab the opponents stick.

    At any rate the good thing is Professor brought Balintawak to light here in the U.S. it is also great to see it alive and doing well in the PI. I am thankfull for having the opportunity to do both the original and Remy's blend of it, reguardless of how he got it.

    Yours in Balintawak


    P.S let us know if you ever get to the U.S, it would be cool to compare notes.
  17. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    Good discussion - I thank everyone for posting it here. :)
  18. Robert Klampfer

    Robert Klampfer New Member

    Well said, Rocky.

  19. Soncen

    Soncen Teovel Balintawak

    Thanks for the clarification Rocky!!!

    Grabs, holds, tripping and disarming were also a component of the Balintawak Arnis self-defense system.

    -Wilson R. Ceniza

    P.S. I haven't been to the U.S.A. How I wish that I could!
    Last edited: May 15, 2006
  20. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

    THe great thing about the Balintawak brotherhood, is you will always have a connection and help finind a place to stay!!

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