Sword-on-Sword contact.

Discussion in 'Misc. Sword Arts' started by arnisador, Apr 2, 2007.

  1. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I made a new thread for this because these are great ponts. Movies leave people with exactly the wrong impression regarding swordwork. Why hit sword-on-sword when you can get in a cut/stab? It's a matter of mindset!

    Similar ideas were discussed in this thread (and the MT thread which spawned it, which contains an excellent post on similar ideas as the above but in iaido).
     
  2. Sun_Helmet

    Sun_Helmet Junior Member

    As someone on the linked thread points out, this concept is true for many sword systems, not exactly FMA. Musashi has written on the subject of non sword contact and numerous fencing manuals have also touched on this subject.

    Movie choreography keeps the non sword contact at a minimum to effectively "sell" the moment when the hero uses no contact to make the killshot.

    --Rafael--
     
  3. Matt Lim

    Matt Lim New Member

    Sword-on-Sword contact.

    To prevent from being cut I guess.
     
  4. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    There's no doubt that sometimes you must do it...but I think many people overemphasize it in their training. It's as in JKD...blocking is the least desirable way to handle the situation.
     
  5. Matt Lim

    Matt Lim New Member

    I think some people are using weapon to weapon "blocking" to be able to apply techniques in "full" speed or power without hurting their training partners. Others use it just in the beginning level and progresses to direct controlled hitting to the hand, arm, or body. That way the trainees learn range/distance awareness and control. One cannot usually desire a way to handle an actual situation, you use what can be used... if you can.
     
  6. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    Fencing has also influenced this type of training, or presentation of blade arts. When you're using weapons that have no edge you don't really think about how notched and ruined the edge would be if you bang them together that way.
     
  7. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    Keep in mind that the flat and spine of the long blades are used as well. And can easily nullify full power & full speed attacks. However, in sword play timing, economy of motion and placement is essential NOT power & speed necessarily.
     
  8. 408kali

    408kali New Member

    I wouldn't be so much worried about my sword as my neck. I could care less how chipped my blade might be as long as I'm intact. On the other hand, I agree with attacking the weapon hand(s) and/or a stab/slice to those exposed areas. If you survive in one piece, and your opponent is dismantled, then your objective has been met. ..but that's just my .2 pesos..
     
  9. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    If only we could all be that good to avoid any contact. In the real world, there are measures that will require some contact to avoid further contact. It just depends on how much contact.
     
  10. equilibrium

    equilibrium New Member

    The worse your footwork is, and the more "modern" your training is, the more you need to resort to the beginner last ditch method of blade on blade CYA.
     
  11. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Footwork is definitely key to being able to fight on your terms, not your opponent's.
     
  12. equilibrium

    equilibrium New Member

    Hold the presses.. gosh I guess we are all wrong about blade to blade contact.. has anyone seen the new cold steel DVD with the Barong demo with Ron Balicki... wow..they look like a couple of kids banging tree branches together... they even can twirl their weapons for no reason. Amazing!

    If you are attacked by a naked chicken, that big fat barong could CUT HIM IN HALF!!
     
  13. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Truth be told there is only one way to guarantee no blade on blade contact....AMBUSH! It is IMHO a true way and one that works...when in doubt go ugly early and win.

    In BaHad Zu'Bu there is no weapon to weapon blocking within the syllabus. As Tatang said "My weapon is for your body, not your weapon".
     
  14. Silence_sucks

    Silence_sucks New Member

    Perhaps im not getting this thread properly, i agree that blade work is definatly not about swash buckling and classic *ting* *ting* blade contact but what about saftey checking with a second weapon or if you are going to the zero pressure point with an inside deflection or wing? Sure with a bladed weapon striving to stay in largo mano range is the go but does not mean there is never a situation where using your blade to check another weapon is not a good idea.

    So far as blade notching is concerned i always turn my wrist with my checking weapon while training abecidario, i figure perfect practice makes perfect.
     
  15. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    No argument that there are times when you must cross swords! My point in starting this thread (and this thread) was that too many people seem to think that that's the standard thing to do, whereas I think that the ideal is to cut him before his weapon is drawn; next, as it's being drawn; next, to fake him out/use footwork so you get your cut in without having to engage his drawn weapon; next, to deflect the weapon enough to get in your cut; next, to actually block then have to respond. All but the last are a single beat or, with the deflection, possibly a beat-and-a-half, while the last is a beat-beat technique. You lose the driver's seat position!

    So yes, block when you must but don't let yourself get trapped in the mindset that says "A strike is coming in, hence I must block." We know better than that in the FMA--at the least, we often "block" by cutting/striking the arm/hand--but it's easy to fall into the trap of mimicking what's seen in movies or thinking that the constant stick-to-stick contact of a sinawali is a preferred way of handling incoming strikes.
     
  16. puntadas

    puntadas New Member

    the less contact the better! some guys really stink...
     
  17. Silence_sucks

    Silence_sucks New Member

    Ah that makes it much more clear! just like the heirachy of defence right?
    Intercetption then simultaneous attack and defence then covers and then finaly blocks.
     
  18. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Yes, my point exactly! For some reason, it seems to me, people who do that empty-hand all too often fall back on blocking with swords, possibly because the consequences of being hit are so severe. That's fine, but one should still remember that the same type of heirarchy applies!
     
  19. oosh

    oosh Junior Member

    As Tatang said - “Dakong insulto kun masagang ang akong bunal”

    "It would be a humiliating insult if someone can block my strike"
     
  20. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I love that quote! I hadn't heard it before.
     

Share This Page