Striking template vs tactical application

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by JPR, Oct 26, 2005.

  1. JPR

    JPR New Member

    My understanding of PTK tactics is that most reliance is placed upon the aggressive use of the diagonal downward forehand and diagonal downward backhand (with footwork). Yet the first 12 strikes from the basic PTK template do not have these strikes. Does anyone know why?

  2. blindside

    blindside student

    (Standard caution, I am a beginner in this art, and I may be talking out of my um, rear.)

    Technically the backhand diagonal is contained in the first 12 (#6), but your point is well taken. Simply put, the first 12 (Abcedario) only represent one of the patterns of motion. Other groupings are also taught, if you learn under the 64 attacks curricullum, diagonal and reverse diagonal attacks are #32-35.

  3. Kalisong

    Kalisong New Member

    In the basic level of PTK the 12 attacks are target areas that are finishers/ Immobolizers that also address different strike patterns . If you know the 12 strikes then number 6 and 7 are downward diagonals. The 12 attacks ar the stepping stones above the multiple strikes that teach the different patterns of strikes at the most basic level.
  4. Danny T

    Danny T New Member

    PT doesn’t rely on any one aspect of striking. There are diagonal, horizontal, and vertical strikes. Diagonal strikes are prevalent within the 5 attack subsystem and in many other areas. However, the most relent strike is the one which stops the opponent, Now!

    The first 12 strikes you asking of are from the Abcedario of which there are 144 strikes with a stick or sword and 144 empty hand. (once learned most can be applied with a weapon). These attacks are for learning which target to attack and how to strike the target. Horizontal, Vertical, Diagonal, or with a thrust.
    The first 4 are horizontal, 5 is a thrust, 6 is a diagonal backhand, 7 horizontal, 8&9 backhand and forehand thrusts, 10 vertical, 11 both hands on the weapon thrust and 12 striking with a thrust and live hand at the same time. The Abcedario is not for fighting but for learning the weapon arm movement, the use of the different parts of weapon and how they are deployed on the different targets. Also the use of very basic stepping and body movement.
    Within the basic movements of the Abcedario the practitioner learns other uses of the movement, body positions as well as weapon placement. I.e. The upward backhand vertical movement in the reverse set is also the basic movement of an umbrella movement.

    Once the beginner can hit the proper target, with the proper weapon, properly they should move onto the next level-4 wall which utilizes some basic counters to the Abcedario and are two-man timing drills for entries. As one advances the 12 attacks targets become finisher attacks within the contradas and recontras.
    Hope the helps

  5. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    The related Dekiti Tirsia Siradas system has the same 144 variants approach, I believe.
  6. blindside

    blindside student

    The DTS Abcedario is different, it opens with what PTK calls the 5 attack subsystem. I believe you are correct though, it does go through a similar iteration of different types of strikes like the PTK abcedario does.

  7. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Yes, I was referring to that part of the approach--the 12x12 pattern to so many things. Of course, Dekiti Tirsia Siradas and Pekiti Tirsia are closely related so this is no surprise.
  8. wes tasker

    wes tasker New Member

    Actually, I don't think Dekiti has quite the same set of striking angles and ways of delivering them. I'm primarily a student of Pekiti Tirsia, but I've had the chance to attend a couple of seminars with Tuhon Jerson "Nene" Tortal. He does teach several 12 count attack sets that accentuate different ways of strking, but if I remember correctly, there are 12 standard, 12 with the punyo, 12 thrusts, and 12 two hands on either end of the stick. Not that I think any one way is superior to any other - just that I think Dekiti Tirsia Sirradas takes a different approach - at least in the actual strking patterns involved, although getting hit by either Tuhon Bill McGrath or Tuhon Nene Tortal with a stick does not quite make the top 10 things I want to do in the future.....

    -wes tasker
  9. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Yes, they do indeed do their basic 12 strikes in a variety of ways as you indicate. What I meant was the fact that they have the same "and they told 12 friends" way of doing, say, 12 disarms off angle 1, 12 off angle 2, ... , 12 off angle 12, to get 144 variations. I was just referring to this combinatorial approach to things.

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