Discussion in 'General' started by el maldito de cebu, Nov 20, 2008.
I don't understand what you mean by 2nd class and 1st class...
he was referring that we filipinos are just 2nd class citizens in the golbal community and thats a fact, and question isnt' he having a filipino by blood? so you conclude his general conclusion on us filipinos. I'd rather stay in a small cousy hut by a white golden seashore eat fresh meat and vegetable than to lived in a beautiful city with all the food are having preservatives jsut to be called 1st class citizens I'd be waking up in the face of the beautiful sun and good fresh wind breeze with a beautiful sceniry now which would you choose as to be a rich place a city or paradise?
It depends on how one considers what is paradise... To you that is paradise and to some, paradise is a Ferrari in the driveway while going to a club every night... Personal choices... I have lived on both sides... I was raised in the barrios and was raised in the city here in the US... I can survive in both environments and can benefit from both environments...
Yes, Filipinos are 2nd class citizens as well as other non-White citizens... No matter what... Anybody who is not White is 2nd class... They are called minorities...
"Yes, Filipinos are 2nd class citizens as well as other non-White citizens... No matter what... Anybody who is not White is 2nd class... They are called minorities," The Phalanx
Oh wait.............America just elected a second class citizen as President of the United States? Call him and ask him if he is second class!
Look how encouraged Africa was by this (especially Kenya)!
Interesting how you didn't address the other points of my post and again I am only pointing out your writing because you are talking about education.
You make an interesting point about you never being able to be perfect with your English language because of your surroundings being in the Philippines where Bisaya is the main dialect. Can the same thinking be applied with us westerners regarding FMA? Do we get the same leniency that you request for English not being your native tongue? I'm sure this can be accomodated shouldn't it sir?
Cheap Labor=2nd Class Citizen
Filipinos are cheap labor. You can almost say that this is the Economic Policy of the Philippines. To keep the Philippine Economy floating, the government exports as much cheap labor as possible, from unskilled, semi-skilled to skilled labor (then label them ‘new heroes’). When they go abroad, they remit their earnings. The family back home spends the money. Through graft and corruption, and also the fact that most big corporations who operate in the Philippines are foreign, a great amount of that money goes back outside, without ever leaving any long lasting benefits to the Philippines and its population. There’s a reason why this cycle has to perpetuate—to benefit the few.
The Philippine Education system was set up by the Americans, it was the BEST education system in SE Asia. Thais, Indonesians, Malaysians, etc. used to go to UP Los Banos to learn how to grow rice. Now the Philippines pleads for hand outs of rice from Malaysia and Indonesia. When you say you graduated as a teacher or nurse, back in the 60s from the Philippines, everyone bowed down, because that was as good as saying you were educated in the States—now look at your diction, grammar and ability to critically think. The education system has gone down the toilet.
Somewhere along the line between all that corruption, Marcos’s ‘Filipinization’ campaign in the education system (which involved so much un-necessary revision), and now the realization that the Filipinos can cheat bad governance by sending its youngest to be exploited in the greater world economy, quantity has taken over quality. The government knows that without remittance from its young working abroad, the Philippine economy will crumble. So they need to insure that more young Filipinos go abroad, which means fast tracked education. So the education system has gone down compared to the 1950s. The purpose isn’t to educate anymore but to keep pumping cheap labor into the world economy—this is the reason every young Filipino wants to go to Saudi, or Japan or Europe, and of course America.
Now if you’re cheap labor, and you’ve been conditioned since childhood that this is your lot, and all your government’s powers is designed and focused to sending out into the world for this purpose, whether skilled or unskilled. It shouldn’t be a surprise that you will be a 2nd class citizen wherever you go. Why? Because you are cheap labor.
I’m not sharing you these facts to hurt your feelings, this is the truth. If anything, I hope all this will encourage you to forget going to Saudi, enroll at USC Law, become a lawyer (or doctor, or teacher…), stay in the Philippines and destroy the above system from the inside out, and bring about a new Philippines. But then again you’ll probably be too pissed off at me not calling you a warrior, and miss the whole point of this post.
Watch these two documentaries and try to figure out where you fit in to this whole mix:
Commanding Heights, PBS--complete program available here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/hi/story/index.html
Your post makes interesting reading.
I have to agree with the Caucasian response, even though I am not. A warrior is someone who has been to war.
To revel in dismembering someone is sick. It also dishonours the people who fight and die because they either have to fight, or choose to die to protect others.
It is not glory to kill others despite how you choose to portray your art or religion. Anyone who has seen death does not revel in it. Only psychopathic and mentally disturbed people do.
Most people here are proud of their FMA heritage, whether or not they be Filipino. To denigrate others simply because they are not does you little credit, and shows your ignorance. As others have pointed out, the religious bigotry you spout comes from a region where your people are deprived of their rights and treated like slaves, by arguably the worst slavers in history. If you are so proud of your brother Filipinos then speak out against the injustices being carried out against them now, not 300 years ago.
“we live in the diferent culture and different environment” you say.. and that is true. Your culture and environment is different to most Caucasians. Can you not accept their culture and environment, their willingness to learn your culture and art, and have some pride in the fact that, if you MUSt put it this way, the conquerors now return to learn?
Your attitude promotes the division separation and infighting that allows karate and TKD to rule the world (unarmed of course lol).
[FONT="]It would be easier to understand your message if your English was clearer. I have sat with Malays arguing over small matters but they were both saying the same thing but their English was too poor to realise. I don’t understand all that you say but your message is aggressive, insulting, and possibly racist. Warriors had respect. If you call yourself that, then show some to others who are your seniors and hold higher ranks than you. [/FONT]
you are in tittled for your own opinion some of you may missinterprete it and I cant' lead your judgement' cause its your own understanding. I was I bit aggressive with some of it but not to the point of chalenging people in this thread you are open to say how you feel but yet stil with rules so if thats what you feel I cant' change that and I appologies for that but I just what to make it clear again and again i'am not entittled the warrior. I was just getting your opinion if you were a filipino what would you think if your art is called by some other practitioner that your art had over selled the warrior thing what would you feel? and what would be the grandmaster that empart to you the knowledge if they heard it? would they be still proud of you? my high ranks are of the tribes council not in my FMA club and to give names is not allowed and unethical so lets just focus on the issue asside from getting into other issues such as polictics nor education cause your calling us 2nd class how looking at you president Hon.obama? now tell whats wrong with the pecture sorry bout that i just want your opinion.
you are entittled of your own opinion and your free to express your feelings
please keep to the topic. I was clearing it again and again I'am not entittled to be called a warrior that was not the point genuis' and keep mocking us maybe it makes you feel good oh' want thing white outside with brown inside what are you then? atleast I know my roots. if you call our education toilet how about your education? alteast we have a degree then even if you call us a mess. How many american population got a degree? now call me which is which. and adressing me such a racist now think who was that again? OMG man...
You know, this thread of us versus them is getting a little old.. I am married to a filipina from the central luzon area and been married to her for more than 30 yrs... My wife has a degree in computer technology, speaks english fluently and like me works for the US federal government.. Her dad worked on Clark Airbase for more than 25 yrs and moved to the states when the wife and I sponsored both him and her mom to the states in 1984 while I was still active duty..
This is not bragging on my wife's ability to assimilate into the US culture, but I can tell you that this was done with the trials and tribulations of being married and coming to the states in the 70s when the vietnam war was ongoing.. I had to fight her battles for her when she came to the states even though she was capable of understanding what was going on as far as racism sometimes within my own family.. She is a fighter and will stand up for her equality in the cultural melting pot called the United States.. She got to where she is today because of this ability to fight and stand up to the naysayers and racist rednecks which prevailed in the states back then..
It really pisses me off when people from the Philippines call themselves 2nd class citizens when they are out and away from the Philippines.. This is calling defeat to themselves before they step one foot onto the battleground.. This is not the Filipino way from the way I was taught and have observed in the 30 plus years of being heavily involved with the Filipino culture and meeting Filipinos on a daily basis while serving in the military and elsewhere in my travels..
Guam is a smaller melting pot of what goes on in the states, the cultural mixture here is 40 percent Filipino and some of the major companies here are owned by Filipino expatriates who came here after the war and built their companies from the ground up with their work and sweat.. These people took the step to move out and persevered to make their lives better while facing the racism of the United States of the 1940s through today..
The battles of these expats was recently celebrated by a group of people here who made the concentrated effort to research the different Filipino work camps which were set up to help Guam rebuild after the war.. One of these projects is titled "Camp Roxas" which highlighted the efforts and daily living of the Filipino workers who lived in this camp.. It was recently played here on island and now is making it's rounds in the states before being inducted into the Smithsonian museum as part of the history of this island.
It takes effort to get off of your butts and pull yourself up by the bootstraps to make life better for yourselves.. So instead of sitting back and pissing and moaning about how tough things are "conceived" by the so called 2nd Class citizens known as Filipinos, put forth the effort to be proud of your heritage and history without degrading yourselves by feeling sorry for yourself..
Nuff said by this Haole (slang for being an outsider not from the Pacific islands)
Food for Thought
When people cry, complain and not do anything, that's Defeatism. The plight of OCWs in the Middle East and Europe would have never been known, had none of them returned and stated, "Hey, WE are 2nd class citizens out there! and our Gov't is unable to do anything for us!". You gotta define the problem before you can address it. It's not unlike what the Blacks and Jews did during the Civil Rights movement--'the Coloreds are 2nd class citizens, let's do something about it'. Many of the manongs (manoy Juan LaCoste, manong Leo Giron, manong Regino Ilustrisimo, and more) were part of Farm Workers movement in California. This was a movement started by Filipinos who were sick and tired of being 2nd class citizens.
So recognizing a problem is not necessarily defeatism.
The label 2nd Class Citizen in the Saudi and Gulf region is a statement of fact. It's not a 'conceived' feeling by all means, it's an actual problem in the Middle East. Filipinos (mostly the unskilled laborers, but many skilled also) are being victimized. The greater problem can involve murder/rape to not getting paid for work rendered.
Defining and understanding that there is a problem is crucial to being able to do something about it. Pride of heritage and history is great, but policy wise what can that 19 yr old maid who just got raped by her employer do? or that computer programer charged with embezzlement because he talked back to his Saudi boss?
When people from the Philippines address the issue of being 2nd class citizens, it's not because they are giving up, it's because they want to do something about it. The Civil Rights movement and the Farm Workers movement in California began the same way.
When we talk about Filipino culture, we have to be more holistic. Most who train in FMA don't care about these issues. If it has nothing to do with warriorship, or warriorism, or if it doesn't make them feel like the 300, then forget about it. Tunnel vision is what we are trying to help el maldito--and many others, Filipinos and non-Filipinos, who secretly feel the same way he does--rid himself of.
To say this is a controversial topic is an understatement. I don't think discussions about race and perceptions of race are out-of-bounds for this forum, but the discussions need to take place with respect for differing points of view, and differing sensitivities.
Please tread carefully.
- Carol Kaur
- FMATalk Admin
Would religious preference be a part of this classification? Especially in Saudi Arabia a country that is a sheep in a wolfs jubba? Having been in the region I noticed more profiling due to this reason. Also, gender related no matter the religion.
I would have to say that although your lot might be better as a Muslim, there is an under current of racism specific to the Gulf region. As for women, it’s a strict patriarchal culture and their religion and laws reflect this.
If you’re a Muslim Filipino (or Pakistani, Indonesian, Indian, etc.) Gulf Arabs have a tendency to view you as a lesser Muslim. The thinking is that since Islam came from them, the Prophet was of them, the two Holy Mosques are in their guardianship, and the Quran was revealed in Arabic, then they are the vanguard Muslims. In their minds there is a hierarchy. Gulf Arabs feel more Muslims than their Shemi (Levantine) or Maghrebi (N. African) brethrens, almost similar to the way they look down on Sufis and Shi’as. As for Jews and Christians, they killed them off or drove them away when the Prophet was still living. It pays a little to be Muslim, but in the Gulf region it’s not much at all (you’re better off in Damascus or Cairo, cities more open to different Muslim perspectives).
Filipinos are notorious for faking it in the Gulf region. Many non-Muslim Filipinos, knowing they’re able to get extra benefits as Muslims, ‘convert’ to Islam. Interestingly, in Islam, there is a similar concept, although used more by Shi’as. It’s called taqiyyah—basically hiding your religion to survive (the same justification some of the 9-11 hi-jackers used to drink whiskey and go to strip-joints, thus being able to hide from authorities).
As for women, whether Muslims or non-Muslims, they’re almost like property. The Philippines is bi-lineal, which means Filipinos follow both their parents lines. The Arabs are patri-lineal, preference is always afforded to the males. Throughout history in SE Asia, women have always been able to hold power, as witch doctors or even tribe leaders. It’s the opposite in the Middle East, a woman is dictated by her father or brothers and when she marries, she answers to her husband and the males in his family. The best way to see this discrepancy is in the Islamic inheritance laws (and that rape I mentioned, in Islamic law the victim has to produce 4 witnesses to the rape to be able to convict the rapist).
Interestingly, though, Western women are afforded women/men status. These are Western women in academia, the corporate world and gov’t (and if you’re blonde, forget about it, it’s like winning the Lotto)
To a lesser degree that was our experience in Taiwan where I met my wife.
She had her passport taken from her at the Airport and only given back to her at the airport when she left the country. Had a 1am dormitory curfu, wasn't allowed to be seen on the back of any motorbikes (for fear the asset would run away I suppose), mandotory overime at a reduced rate, and unfortunately I have a few other horror stories which let's just say involve the police and "brushing things under the carpet".
Apaprently Thais are also treated in the same manner.
As a westerner I was discriminated against much differently. I even had strange familys coming up to me and asking for pictures when I was grabbing some take-out at the corner noodle shop. The world is a fcuked up place at times
Fitnah seems to run deep there....salaams!
of Shi'as and Sufis
No worries, there's a good chance that within 10 to 15 yrs the Shi'as will be the stewards of the two Holy Mosques (Iran will be Hegemon of this region).
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95285396 (listen to this interview)
In the 1970s, there were Filipino nurses and doctors who worked in Iran when the Shah was still in power. After the Islamic revolution, they stayed, eventually caring for the casualties of the Iran-Iraq war. Most of them have retired and moved back to the Philippines. They have nothing but praise for the Iranians.
Everywhere else in the Middle East the Jews have been driven out. Arab countries are pushing out eastern Christians. The best place to be Christian in the Arab world right now is Syria, but even that won't last too long since the Salafis are effectively muscling out the Sufis (thanks to Saudi pertro-dollar funding).
Iran has always had Jews and Christians take part in the wider Persian social structure for centuries regardless of who's in power. Sufism has always been strong in Persia. The Iranians, outside of their own aspirations for power, seem to get it. The U.S. is backing the wrong horse in the Middle East.
These guys that focus too much on the jihad of the enemy are missing the whole point. We should be looking more into the Sufis (the Mughals of India were Sufis) and Shi'as (the Fatimids and now modern Iran) more closely, they've been successful at running nations in the past. These camel humpers are killing us, figuratively and literally.
Jihad of the Self:
Eid al-Shukr Mubarak, everyone. Happy Deek Rumi day!
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