Speaking of Endorsements...

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by DM03, Apr 17, 2010.

  1. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    Actually there's a very interesting article in Black Belt Magazine about Jerry Rice and the way he trained for football games that supports the idea that training for an event doesn't mean you have to do the thing you plan on doing, but that it is important to train the attributes used.
     
  2. DM03

    DM03 New Member

    Jason,
    Take a minute to relate this to your own field of expertise. Think of the fundamental principle responsible for any meaningful increases in muscular strength and size - the principle of progressive resistance, some measure of resistance beyond that which the human muscle structures are accustomed to. I presume you were taught this a long time ago, and it is the foundation of the entire field of study. Now, some undergraduate goes out and claims that he has discovered that indeed progressive resistance is NOT necessary for increases in size and strength, but that all one needs to do is drink two gallons of water a day and pray to the deity of their choice. Moreover, he is going to found a school to teach others what he has discovered.

    Now, would your response to said person be, "Hey, I notice that you teach that differently than I was taught. Why is that?" or would it be, "What you are teaching regarding the actual method of realizing gains is muscular strength and size is not correct."

    If indeed it is the former, well, you are an infinitely more tolerant man than I am.
     
  3. ptksocal

    ptksocal New Member

    Brock, your comment is completely irrelevant to what I was saying.
     
  4. I found it to be relevant so thanks Brock.

    I am a law-abiding citizen who has not been in the army / LEO etc, etc. Therefore my experience of "Combat" is fairly limited to the drunken scuffles which seem to beset the young and inebriated. I train "Martial Arts" for a number of reasons - not just for "Combat Efficiency". I guess there are a large sub-set of us out there - especially as this is (at times LOL) a "Martial Arts" forum.

    For me saying things like "We're combat orientated - you're just a Martial Art" is a different take on "Our art is better than yours".

    Sure, I get the point especially where the "Art" is geared more towards form competitions / point sparring. To say something along the lines that "All combat art people can fight and the majority of Martial Artists are dancers" is a dangerous assumption.

    In my experience it is people that fight and not systems. One thing that may bear out your statement is the type of people attracted to certain arts...

    Anyway, as long as everybody is happy doing there various systems we should all live and let live.

    Simon.
     
  5. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    Your analogy is a little off. Tuhon Bill is not some random undergraduate student that went on his own way and is making up a bunch of nonsense and you are not the professor who taught him. He is someone with an advanced level of study who may have a slightly different take on things than someone else does. In fact, it is my understanding that he has been studying PTK much longer than you have. The "slightly different take" comment may not even be accurate on my part. Neither you, I, or anyone else on this forum other than Tuhon Bill were in the room when he was studying with GT Gaje. However to run with your analogy, I do have students who disagree with my assessment of the field all the time. That is exactly what is SUPPOSED to happen. I am not indoctrinating my students, I am educating them. My job is to be an honest broker of knowledge, to show them the data and give them my interpretation of it, and to teach them ways in which they can apply it. The rest is up to them. If they answer an exam question differently than I think it should be answered and they have EVIDENCE to support their choice, then they get credit for it or at least we get to have the conversation. Not to be cocky, but I am a recognized expert in my area of study by pretty much any standard you want to use. However, that does not mean that I know it all. There are a ton a data out there and no one can keep up with it.

    Disagreements happen all the time Dino in my field and I have no problem telling someone that I think they are interpreting information incorrectly. However, I am also obligated to handle things as a professional and attack the argument rather than the arguer. I also recognize that little is to be gained by presenting my arguments in such a way that I am degrading the person I disagree with. I would not want to be treated that way and I suspect that you would not either. Respect and courtesy are a two way street. As for the rest of your argument, experts in a given field disagree on things all the time. Its expected and its healthy. Its exactly what is SUPPOSED to happen. I don't interpret the same research exactly the same way my doctoral advisor does. We have had some big time arguments and have gone back and forth both while I was his student and following that. Does that make my knowledge wrong? I think I can make a pretty compelling argument for my stance on pretty much everything. But, you know what? So can he. Does that make me a bad student or somehow disrespectful of him that I don't always agree with him? No, it is exactly what he taught me to do in the first place. I expect the exact same thing out of my graduate students.

    Having said all of that, I have no problem with you coming on here and having a different take on something than Tuhon Bill does. I have no problem with you having a different take on something then instructors under his organization do. You know what you have been taught related to PTK, not me. What I do have a problem with is the manner in which it has been handled. You cannot allow for the fact that the way you have been taught may not be the only way. You can't allow for the fact that someone else who has achieved advanced study in your art may interpret it differently from you. You cannot allow for the fact that 25 years ago, Tuhon Gaje himself might have had a different interpretation of things than he does today. For you to be right, Tuhon Bill does not necessarily have to be wrong. If you can't make allowances for that and handle your criticism accordingly then these types of threads are what we end up with. Finally, even if you can't bring yourself around to accept any of that, you are not obligated to present your arguments with rancor.
     
  6. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    You betcha...My daddy always told me "Son, if you got a tool your proud of, put a roof over it."......LOL...please don't tell me that your one of those people who only gaze at a cover ;) and figure you know the book...man that would be so sad and potentially dangerous....lol..but I know your not that type...you seem to be a good fella, right? You wouldn't threaten me or anything like that, huh?.........lol

    No that is your assesment of what combat is, not all are going to think the same as you. If someone tells me they want a test of combat then I, being the somewhat stable individual that I am, or was (I get those 2 confused) will get scared and think that someone is going trying to kill me....and then all the afore mentioned bits of nastiness come into play. And that is my interpretation of combat..a hell of a lot more than a little ole fight....and if I slipped off my meds, well then Katy bar the door....

    So your a fighter, good for you..how much you getting paid..whats your record? Dancers and performers....hmmm...are you talking about strippers?....As to circus monkeys...lol.. could I fill you in on some circus money shitt...you may not like it though and then want to fight...LOL...and I might get scared.....

    The difference huh. I don't give a damn what you call it..combat system..martial art...if you don't have the sack to make it ugly and nasty then it all flies right out the window......and training is the operative word. So you train for combat..ever seen any (where things that go Bang are whizzing by your head, and the potential for you going Q & O's is increasing by the second) Once again, who you fighting..whats your record..blah blah blah..

    Dancing around the subject of combat?. how do you tap dance around it wearing hip boots ( the flop is thick)...


    Now go ahead and shoot some smart ass remark back and then I will do the same..and we can go back and forth..not a problem.......

    Moderators go ahead and ban my account if you will........( Hopefully this fella won't take my rant personally, but alas I fear he will)...lol

    A fight has a cage, or ropes..you gotta wear your tidy whiteys and slip on the gloves..a helmet ot whatever...that's a fight..it has rules and refs and hopefully a paycheck ..or at least a 12 pack and a doobie after the fray....what happens on the street or wherever people get stupid and jump is to me war. It's odd for someone who says he is all about combat..and training a combat system..you sure got thin skin..at least thats how I see it..pretty obvious, don't you think.

    See how easy it is to stir a pot, to get people itchy and jumpy...very easy thing to do. It however is not my intent..my entire take on this situation is WHO GIVES A GOOD GODDAMN! It isn't pertinent and it doesn't matter....all that matters is people get along and just chill. But no there is always someone (not pointing figners) who loves to stir the pot. As you see anyone can do it..just as I have, intentionally, to show how easy people can bite....damn foks drive on do your thing..the globes big enough for everyone...we can all have our little slice of the pie without talking to much shitt. But if it is shitt talk you want and pot stirring, well then caveat emptor...we can have at it in spades.. To each ther own

    Okay I'm done now...need pancakes and coffee......gotta feed my gut, aint that right ptksocal?...LOL..Yeehaw pass the syrup...
     
  7. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Darth Vindicatus Supporting Member

    Combat to me says things like "Iraq, Afghanistan, Omaha Beach" not "Louis Clash of Champions XXIV". A combat art is a killing art. A martial art an art of self improvement. A self defense art one of self defense. Combat art to me says "this is how you efficiently kill someone". Martial art says "this is how you perfect the movements". Self Defense is "how I save my ass while hopefully staying within the law". There is overlap, and there is not. A combat art might look sloppy to a martial artist and is omitted from the self defensist's book entirely. Doesn't matter. Each has their place in the world. But trying a text book kata in a war zone would probably result in you coming home in a bag, and a throat cut with spinal severing will get you a murder rap in NYC. Right tool, right time. Though I do agree, when people pound their chests about combat arts, I'm always curious how much -real- combat they've seen. Running around the woods in camo pants and going Rambo on your training partners doesn't cut it in my book. I once asked a kenpo instructor how he knew his stuff worked in the real world. He admitted he didn't. Ended up in the military where he got some eye opening lessons in the differences between 'martial art' and 'combat art'.
     
  8. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    As Bob put it..."Every individuals interpretation of what combat is will be shaped by their life's experiences".....whether these experiences are formed in actual combat or instilled in training..or in some cases garnered by bad decisions which throw one into the street life, thus leading to violence etc.

    None are wrong or right, they are simply personal interpretations.......we do not have to agree with each other on any of these subjects as it pertains to the arts /combat systems we train. But it is important that we discuss said differences in a civilized manner and with decorum.

    I remember Grand Tuhon Gaje saying this " If a man is skilled with his knife and he faces another who is equally as skilled, then perhaps it is best to shake hands and be friends"...wise, wise words....and we all on this forum play with knives, swords, guns, sticks etc.....

    so let's all be pals and call it a day......

    I think differences are actually a good thing...
     
  9. ptksocal

    ptksocal New Member

    Oh look, a big monkey dance. I'm impressed. Typical...
     
  10. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    To easy...

    [​IMG]
     
  11. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Please, let's get back on topic and discuss matters in a polite and professional manner!

    -Arnisador
    -FMAT Admin
     
  12. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Im playing nice...lol....not my fault that some don't get the humor....as to polite ...well I have never been accused of this...lol...Im a TEXAN rarely do the two coincide....lol.....but I digress..I shall stand down....besides I grow tired of candy snatching......and it is nap time! Be well all who play here..and remember: ]oke'em if they can't take a F*** !!!!!!

    Maybe a hug will help.......

    [​IMG]
     
  13. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Nah, Let's all set our salvaged rattan sticks on fire and sit around the bonfire singing "Kumbaya". After which we will all sit around the camp fire and drink our hot chocolate and marshmallows..
     
  14. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    So, me saying that to train as a fighter you don't have to fight all of the time isn't relative to what you were saying? Some of my students are doctors and other professionals that can't exactly go to work the next day full of bruises, cuts, and what not, so they don't fight all of the time, but could I count on them when the crap hits the fan, you bet. Furthermore to say an art being taught is not a combat art because not everyone studying it fights is a generalization and a bit small minded. I mean I'm sure not everyone who studies Senkotiros goes out and fights everyday or even every month or so, but to say it's not a fighting art because of that hmm...
     
  15. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Darth Vindicatus Supporting Member

    Can't we do both? But if you don't mind, make mine something stronger, say....Rum! :D
     
  16. still lurking

    still lurking New Member

    I agree. Who's turn was it to piss ?

    :1drink:
     
  17. NJMMADude

    NJMMADude New Member

    JD for me. Hell, make mine a double. And PG Mike, did I hear you mention strippers?
     
  18. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Darth Vindicatus Supporting Member

    Strippers? Y'all do know I'm a photographer right? ;)
     
  19. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Nah, The hell with the strippers.. Time for another issue of women in the military.. San Antonio is just the place to have it..
     

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