Similarities between Kombatan Freestyle and Balintawak?

Discussion in 'Kombatan' started by Twist, Jul 7, 2006.

  1. Twist

    Twist Junior Member

    I know that Remy Presas studied Balintawak Escrima so I guess it had some influence on GM Ernesto as well.

    While doing Freestyle today I thought it was a lot like the Balintawak I've seen so far (Bobby Taboada and some others).

    Is it just by coincidence or is Freestyle a still-existing Balintawak-Element?
     
  2. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member


    Some schools/Lineages of Balintawak have the grouped teachings, yet from my understanding when you get to a point the instruction and play is free-style.

    In the original style of teaching (* which many believe to be too random for the beginning student, hence the grouped method and even some modified methodologies *), the instructor guides the student through a free style format after the basics are learned. This free style play allows for the instructor to guide the student to a technique to that they have either just learned or need to practice, only the student does not know when or how the instructor will guide them there.

    As to the impact of Balintawak upon GM Ernesto, I cannot speak for I have read his only influence to Balintawak would have been GM Remy, and GM Remy did not teach Balintawak in its pure state. So, You will have to have someone else discuss what if any influence on GM Ernesto was or is.
     
  3. Boar Man

    Boar Man New Member

    Twist

    I see more of a similarity between GM Remy's Tapi Tapi drills and the grouping drills in Balintawak (like GM Toboada's) then GM Ernesto's Freestyle pattern.

    GM Ernesto's Freestyle has some common techniques with GM Remy's RH to RH (Tapi/single stick sparring) pattern but I think the ranges are emphasized more in GM Ernesto's.

    Mark
     
  4. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I did not think that Ernesto Presas had a Balintawak background, other than what his brother had discussed with him.
     
  5. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    That was my understanding.
     
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Does anyone have information to the contrary?
     
  7. monkey

    monkey -== Banned ==-

    Balintawak

    As far as were tought;
    The Arjuken was not of balintawak!
    The karate-kendo & arnis it was comprised of!
    The arnis had serrada base for the edpada y daga --close range & the quick kill Ernesto loved!The Long range was not a fortay!
    The better part was like hubud drills & some can be seenon the links of Ernesto doing it with & with out blind folds!
    Ernesto was tought by his dad Jose & Remy did Balintawak!
     
  8. garland

    garland New Member

    To the best of my understanding Remy took Balintewak to fill in the gaps for him with Arnis. Personally I like the tapi-tapi drill and watching it freestyle is very similiar to watching a balintewak drill. Seriously though if you can get a chance to do tapi tapi AND palit palit you're really getting the best drilling I can think of (short of live sparring).
     
  9. animal_stylez

    animal_stylez New Member

    My understanding was that Remy studied Balintawak but with who is unclear, either Jose Villasin or Arnulfo Mongcal.
     
  10. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman FMA Talk Founder Supporting Member

    Remy studied with Toto Moncal then Timor Maranga then finished with Anciong Bacon himself.
     
  11. armas

    armas Junior Member

    > Ernesto learned from alot of very well known arnisadors. But his exposure was with his Grandad and Father. Then Remy and Ernesto went out to do some research. Ernesto did some Balintawak with GM Mongcal and GM Maranga. He did not go deep into it like Remy though. Remy was and is still known as one of the best fighters of Balintawak. Even though he branched out. Remy gave alot of respect to Balintawak by thanking them in his first book.

    This is not an argument. Don't take it personal. I hope I don't offend anyone. These are facts I personally would ask GM Ernesto while training with him. Take care.
     
  12. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member


    Armas,

    I am confused. GM Moncal and GM Maranga are GM Remy's Teachers until he learned from GM Bacon. I respect GM Ernesto, this is just the first I have heard of this. Could you provide the years he trained with GM's Moncal and Maranga? Also what location i.e. Cebu or elsewhere.

    I am very curious.

    Thanks

    Rich
     
  13. oosh

    oosh Junior Member

    Well you learn something new everyday ;)
     
  14. armas

    armas Junior Member

    Sorry, I really wish I knew the dates and times. GM Ernesto told me he studied with them. I do also know that GM Remy first studied with them too. I will tell you this. I have seen alot of influence of these two masters in GM Ernesto's personal way of fighting. What I mean is his own personal movements. Not curriculum moves. Sorry if this is not clear. GM Ernesto does not always show his own personal methods of fighting. He keeps it to himself. Shares to a couple of fortunate old timers in his group.
     
  15. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    A lot of people used to say that Remy Presas would, when pressed, fall back into Balintawak habits that were not necessarily things he was teaching his Modern Arnis students, so I understand!
     
  16. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    I find that a lot of instructors do this. It seems to be that if they are trying to get several students they teach a lot of "middle of the road" types of techniques that are easily understood and applied, but they themselves use other techniques.
     
  17. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Well, another way of viewing that is that while trying to teach their personally developed system they cannot help but fall back to their own training! What they think is best for others may differ from how they were taught and what is ingrained for them.

    But yes, I've seen what you refer to myself.
     
  18. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

     
  19. armas

    armas Junior Member

    I remember when I first met GM Remy. He asked me who I studied with in the Philippines. When I mentioned his Brother Ernesto. He pulled me aside and showed me Balintawak moves. He asked me if I recognize them and if his brother ever showed me such moves. I said it looks quite familiar. This is my experience with GM REmy. He says I have not yet taught this to my students. I don't mean that he did not teach anybody. He might have after we met. You see it is the culture of the Filipino masters to hand down moves they feel you deserve. He did show some tapi tapi with it. But it shifted to Balintawak. He says to understand the Presas movement be it coming from any of the Brothers we had to learn Balintawak. That's the only thing I remember. The moves were to me just moves. What he said made more of an impact to me.
     
  20. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    My understanding is that Remy Presas would usually send students to Ted Buot for dedicated Balintawak training--the Prof. still knew the material well but for whatever reason he chose not to teach it as an art. Obviosuly, parts of it ended up in Modern Arnis!
     

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