Silat/Willem de Thouars.

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by arnisador, Dec 9, 2007.

  1. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Seen on MT:

    Big things brewing in the politics of his lineage.

  2. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

  3. wes tasker

    wes tasker New Member 1.htm

    I just thought I'd add this for both arnisador and Carol's viewing pleasure. Easy enough to post about a group's politics when it doesn't concern you... I just thought you both would have better things to do than post old news (Bapak Willem does not own the website that quote is taken from...) about a groups politics along with cute popcorn smilies as commentary......

    -wes tasker
  4. Captain Tom

    Captain Tom New Member

    So forgive an old codger and tell me, what does this all mean?

    I've been hearing the name DeThouars a lot but I don't really know what that woud mean for the new guy that wants to learn.
  5. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    It's an early start on spring cleaning.. The Dethouars brothers have a tendency to clean house once or twice every couple of years to get rid of the dead wood and hangers on to stream line their groups..
  6. tellner

    tellner New Member

    I'm afraid that is an overly generous interpretation. They have a habit of rewriting history on a regular basis, dropping long-time students down Big Brother's Memory Hole. "Him? Oh, he never existed." "He never studied with me." "He just did a little, but never really learned anything." I notice a few names of former fair-haired boys who are strangely absent. Years of training and affiliation have disappeared as if they had never been.

    You can't take anything away from the de Thouars family's martial arts, their skill or the good students they've turned out. But that doesn't mean you have to take their who's in/who's out lists or the ever-changing view of history seriously.
  7. tellner

    tellner New Member

    The de Thouars' are a family of Dutch Indonesians. Like the rest of the Dutch Indos they were expelled when Indonesia achieved independence. The oldest brother, Maurice, lives in the Netherlands. Paul, Willem and Victor are in the United States. The de Thouars have superlative martial arts skills and were among the first to bring Silat and Kun Tao to North America. They are best known for the Sera style of Pencak Silat. Willem went in a different direction and studied a number of Silat and Kun Tao systems.

    They've taught some amazing students and had a profound influence on the development of the Southeast Asian martial arts on this continent.

    Unfortunately, there has also been a tendency to part ways with some of those students on less than friendly terms and later deny that they ever existed or had any of the skills that their erstwhile teachers had praised in earlier years. One friend of mine was crudely airbrushed out of group photographs.

    It doesn't detract from the family's skills, its historical importance, the value of what they have to teach or the quality of instruction. But it creates a political minefield.
  8. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    I know what you mean.. I have a friend in Vegas who has survived several of the fire sales that went down over the years from Pak Vic's group.. It is a never ending story and from the last I heard, he put the guys from colorado out of the system due to differences of opinion. I have heard the same about Pendekar Paul and some of his older Bukti Negara group..

    It seems to be a general way of pruning the lineage tree as it has also happened with some of the Filipino Kuntaw instructors who I know.. I was one of the first to get the boot due to "family disagreements"

    Nothing that worries me, Life is too short to worry about the tending the fireworks..
  9. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Revisionist history is a bitch, huh? In the MA world it runs rampant....ahh the episodes I could unfurl like a ships sail chalked full of holes!
  10. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I had just seen it on MT and had the impression it was new news, based on reactions there. It seemed relevant given the number of people with cross-training in both silat and FMA.

    I have had enough of politics from Modern Arnis to last me a lifetime.
  11. wes tasker

    wes tasker New Member

    With that being said - why contribute to another group's by posting? How are the politics, that everyone says they are sick of, relevant? Trust me, as Mr. Ellner has posted about - the worlds of the brothers de Thouars needs no help in this area...

    -wes tasker
  12. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    It seemed like relevant news. But, I'm not especially familiar with the de Thouars' group. I just recognized names such as Mr. Gartin's that have appeared here in the past and thought people would want to know. I'm not throwing stones because indeed I live in a glass house.
  13. tellner

    tellner New Member

    It's an old sad story that does little for the practitioners, the arts or martial arts' reputation in general. We've got better things to do than re-fight battles that started decades ago half way around the world.

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