Sayoc and Pekiti- as they are now.

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by selfcritical, Apr 22, 2008.

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  1. Combative Edge

    Combative Edge New Member

    I not going to argue about this but is this asking politely?

    "First off the spelling is SAYOC Kali, and it is on the thread's subject heading as well as on Google. As a PTK practitioner you're quite aware of this correct?"

    To me that sounds as if your accusing him of purposely spelling the name wrong to be disrespectful..

    Take care
  2. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    Oh, I just hope this is not going to turn into another unnecessary war, leading to unfortunate consequences.
    With all due respect, I have the feeling that Mr. Kayanan (sorry, nor sure of the spelling) was looking for a reason to pick a quarrel here. However, if it will lead to his further elaboration on the Sayoc methodology, than I do not fact I cay "PTK people commenting on whatever thay do (not) know on Sayoc, and Tuhon Rafael explaining in detail where they are wrong!
  3. kuntaokali

    kuntaokali New Member

    All ready did.

    Accually Ron wasn't directing his comments to you either.
    But you still had to chime in, IMO a disrespectful way...
    Ron is "MY" instructor.
    As for my level of instruction in Pekiti Tirsia, I've learned enough to swing a good stick and cut with a blade.
  4. DennisAy

    DennisAy New Member

    sun_helmet, i can see your aggressive, feeder-based mentality in this thread. a simple request with a "please" and "thank you" would've sufficed. your "humbog", ape chest pounding could be mellowed down a bit.
  5. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Please, let's stop arguing about arguing and return to arguing about the martial arts.

    -FMAT Admin
  6. kuntaokali

    kuntaokali New Member

    I agree
  7. selfcritical

    selfcritical New Member

    I have a friend, who is my roomate, that has known me for over 10 years, that spells my first name "Sinnica"(it's seneca) on emails where it's in the header. I wouldn't take this too personally.
  8. selfcritical

    selfcritical New Member

    I agree. It seems like a very large portion of the first two drills are "beat the guy with basic FMA self defense skills"
  9. selfcritical

    selfcritical New Member

    By footwork, I meant the method of pivoting. I believe we may be using different definitions here. Aaron had commented that the way I had learned to move was the correct one for the drill(pivoting with the whole body, rather than leaning). Footwork is also employed in escaping from the corner, and as you observed, in attacking, which is primary(something that I think the filipino blade arts i find most interesting all have in common). I think if we drew a Venn diagram with "footwork" and "body mechanics" we would simply place certain attributes in one rather than the other.
  10. selfcritical

    selfcritical New Member

    I would say this jibes with my previous training as well, in terms of the importance of having no pure defense, only counter-offense.
  11. selfcritical

    selfcritical New Member

    Just out of curiosity, I think you and I mean different things by "western sword arts". Despite being an avid fencer for four years, I wouldn't consider it a sword art, at least not in the same sense as the Reconstructed german longsword stuff that ARMA does. Not that fencing can't develop attributes!
  12. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I've only taken a couple of basic Sayoc Kali seminars, but I know just what you mean. It was illuminating and a bit of an uneasy feeling. As Remy Presas used to say, If you can counter your opponent's counter (of your technique), you'll win the fight.

    I reassure myself that the average guy with a knife out there doesn't know these things! Eh, I hope that's true.
  13. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member having problems at home or your girl left you or something? My life is going very well for me letely so I have no need to be angry here! You seem to be an angry individual over nothing. If spelling gets you so mad then what would you do if someone steps on your toes by mistake? I spelled it wrong, I apologized so you have to deal with it. I like Chris S ;) and I have many friends in the Sayoc Kali group. I even have a few long distant students who do that style. So I don't understand your problem here!

    As for this ****At least the ones that are combative anyway. Inosanto Kali, Lameco, Sayak Kali, Atienza Kali, Dekiti Tirsia Serradas, along with a few lesser names all have roots or have something to do with PTK within their system To me, it is a compliment to the system I like to practice and teach. PTK is the real scientifically designed ancient Filipino style."

    That looks like an opinion or is it something else?***

    How about the answer being, "something else!" For over 3500 years there are combative styles created out of other combative styles. I simply said, that happened to the above styles as well. I am sure Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje teaches his style of PTK slightly different than his grand father did. Its the evolution of individual tastes. I NEVER mentioned that the others were lesser styles in my eyes. I said the PTK is the style that fits my personal needs at the moment. What is wrong with that?

    No need for anger here man!
  14. Gilla

    Gilla -== Banned ==-

    Rafael so now it's how we spell a name. Always so quick jump on a mistake do you spend all your time on the net looking to find some very little thing to jump on ? You say you promote togetherness in FMA and then you jump on a mistake. And why is everyone reading the PTK forum/ Do i go on your site or forums and post. No this is our thing and i say what i want on it, but everyone comes on our site bashes us and then cries foul when i say something back. I wish Sayoc all the best, Chris is a real nice guy but take a pill and chill.
  15. rshawtx

    rshawtx New Member

    misspellings and mispronunciations

    Tuhon Rafael,

    You have expressed yourself and your point with much eloquence and for that you are to be commended. However your post do smack of hypersensitivity over a point that is in all honesty quite trivial. You cannot be intellectually honest with yourself and deny this. Either that or you choose not to see it.

    When I lived in the Philippines, you would not believe the number of times my last name (i.e. Shaw) was mispronounced or misspelled because it is not endemically Filipino. I was constantly surprised how many ways a four-lettered, mono-syllabic surname could be messed up. Did that show a level of disrespect on their part? Emphatically no. Would it have been prudent of me to thinly display my aggression everytime it happend? Again, no.

    To save you the trouble of looking up my post and trying to see where my biases lie in some vain-foolish hope to discredit my point, yes I am a PTK practitioner. This however goes beyond bias and is down right sophomoric. Behavior that a leader in FMA such as yourself would be completely beneath. "Kosakowski" is Ron's last name--"Sayoc" isn't. He should know how to spell it... 'di ba.

    Give the man the benefit of the doubt and move on.



    P.S. Kung saka-sakaling may duda po kayo, talagang ginagalang ko ang kakayahan ng Sayoc at FCS. Hindi lang ito ang pinili ko.
  16. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    The spelling discussion has to stop. Feel free to continue it at the English Language Usage forum:

    Certainly, spelling a proper name properly is a sign of respect and we encourage it. It also helps the Search feature do its job, which is desirable. On the other hand, a forum is not a book and we can't require people to edit their posts that carefully before posting. Many of the posts here are made in an immediate, "chatty" mode, often by people who do not know how to touch-type, and that's OK.

    I doubt that we would want my personal standards of spelling and proper usage enforced across the board. (I'm a college professor and very pedantic about spelling and grammar.) Mr. Hartman would be banned from his own board under such a policy. Of course, I'm a two-finger typist and don't always hit my own standards in that regard. Let's get back to discussing the Filipino martial arts.

    -FMAT Admin
  17. Entropy

    Entropy New Member

    Hello all, this is my first post here and was hoping for clarification:

    I constantly hear this reference from people outside of Atienza Kali.

    "At least the ones that are combative anyway. Inosanto Kali, Lameco, Sayak Kali, Atienza Kali, Dekiti Tirsia Serradas, along with a few lesser names all have roots or have something to do with PTK within their system”

    Or something like “Atienza Kali comes from Pekiti…” so on and so forth.
    I have only trained in Atienza for 5 years and have no prior FMA experience. Can someone please go into detail on which of the concepts in Atienza Kali relate or come from Pekiti? I have listed some of the major ones below that are found in Atienza Kali:

    - Mass Attack
    - Family Dynamic Team Tactics
    - Fighter Types
    - Engagement Types
    - Force Anchor Tracking
    - Gun Tapping
    - Combat Archery

    I know there are a lot of emotions around this subject, remember respect is a two way street. This is all in reference to our blade work since this is what I usually hear the comparisons to, not our Escrima work.

    If you like you can list techniques…and we can get into that discussion as well. However, techniques are a little harder to pin down as many techniques transcend the FMA and are just figured in with basic economy of motion with a blade. Things that have been used on many battlefields throughout history…

    Joshua Votaw
    Atienza Kali
  18. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    Thank you! The fuss was a little extreme. However, I will try to look over my post before submitting (if I can think of it). There was no disrespect meant here on my part!
  19. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje and I were discussing about the various styles around my area. I told him that I had some long distant students that were going to the Sayoc and Atienza groups. I had met them once at one of my students seminars I told him. He told me that he taught them when they were mere lads. He asked me if I can get a hold of them to see if they can come up for the seminar I was holdiong at my school. I asked my student to get a hold of them to see if they wanted to pop by to see Grand Tuhon or participate because he has not seen them in many years. This was somewhere between 4-6 years ago so I can't remember what was said or the reason they could not come up. But what I am saying here is not that they ARE PTK...I am saying there is an influence based on PTK.

    I see nothing wrong with the influence. I feel like a few folks are insulted. We have all that you meantioned in PTK plus also. It is an old family style. I am sure you must realize that there is going to be off shoots of PTK all over the world now a days due to travel making the world smaller. So I am sure there is going to be a lot of PTK influenced styles all over the Philippines...especially in the Visyan region. Yes/no?
  20. imas560

    imas560 New Member

    Hello Entropy,
    I believe you took out the Cold Steel 2006 Sword Fighting Challenge?, do you by any chance have any footage from the Challenge, or know where I can view footage? (I could only find some knife footage from 2005 on youtube). How would you rate this competition/challenge for a test of skills and styles? Would you recommend a beginner to consider entry or even possibly to attend as a spectator?. I'd appreciate any advice/help you could provide.
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