Ratio between weapons for PTK Espada y Daga?

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by jwinch2, Sep 28, 2014.

  1. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    Hello everyone,

    I am curious if anyone has established an optimal (or at least a guideline) on the length ratio between two weapons for PTK Espada y Daga. Obviously, different systems handle EyD differently, and as such, overall lengths of weapons can vary. However, it also seems that the length ratio between the long and short weapon varies between systems as well.
     
  2. blindside

    blindside student

    I don't think I have ever seen that question asked before, and I don't think I have ever thought about it as a ratio. My answer isn't based on a ratio, but on my preferences, the purpose with EyD is to cover multiple ranges of combat with weapons. My preference for long range is a bit longer stick/blade than average, 31" overall lenth or so is my preferred these days. For the daga, i want something fast enough to act as an easy extension of the hand, and to cover the medium range and to be maneauvarable at close, so there I would be looking for a knife with a 5-8 inch blade, so call it 11 - 14 inch overall.
     
  3. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    Thanks for that. I guess my thought is that if the ratio is two large between the two weapons, then you are forced to reach for insertions from the daga that might put you in a bad position tactically. However, if the ratio is too small, you might as well be fighting with two weapons of the same length. For example, a pocket folder might serve for EyD if my long weapon is a collapsible baton or ginunting, but it probably would not serve if I am using a longer blade or weapon. Does that seem reasonable to you?
     
  4. jspeedy

    jspeedy Member

    I'd think it would be more of an issue to have the ratio of weapons too close rather than too far apart. I suppose it depends on the approach of the system, but the benefit I see of the daga is its utility if the opponent closes distance. Closer range systems seem to use the daga as they would the left hand, lots of parrying, covering motions, and left hand punches become thrusts. Two weapons of the same or similar length, with the daga being longer rather than shorter would limit the dexterity to use the left weapon as one woul the hand. from a close range medio/corto perspective one might not worry about the daga being too short, as you wouldn't really chase after the opponent with the daga, you'd just use it more actively if the opponent closed distance.
     
  5. odalisay

    odalisay Member

    I would think you would want your weapon length to fit your body type(heighth & width). Long enough so that you have enough protection & short enough that you can manipulate both weapons simultaneously comfortably without catching on yourself. Hope that kinda makes sense.


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  6. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    I would certainly agree with that. However, since systems approach EyD so differently, it would seem that there ought to be a relationship in terms of the weapons that are used to fulfill the strategy and techniques required. For example:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9Cz8N1sarg.

    If you see in this video, the overall weapon type is obviously different as is total length, but also the ratio between the long and short weapon is distinctly different. This would seem to have relationship between the strategy and tactics being employed by different systems. As noted, if you try to do PTK with a weapon that is not the proper length you leave yourself open to being attacked quite easily. However, I think if you put the ginunting in his hand and simply made the short weapon approximately half of the length of the long (as was the case with the SME weaponry), you would see a similar phenomenon present itself.

    Now compare the video above, which looks at PTK and SME, with a few totally different styles of EyD:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eR9j3na-bo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVCsd04dfEI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh4g7Z6neLw

    It seems somewhat obvious to me that, based upon the strategy and tactics used, along with the manner in which various systems move, that there must be at the very least, a range in terms of a ratio between the long and short weapon, if not an actual optimal ratio.

    Just thinking out loud.
     

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