Discussion in 'Serrada' started by roger211, Dec 30, 2007.

  1. roger211

    roger211 New Member

    I was just wondering how the rank system works.

    I recently started taking classes in Serrada and even though its a fundamental class, I want to talk to the teacher about rank.

    Just wondering if anyone has ideas on the rank and the cirriculm in the system.
  2. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-

    You have to ask your Guro what his ranking is. Before there was 'Advanced then Master' rank when training with GGM Angel.
  3. roger211

    roger211 New Member

    okay. I just wanted to get a general idea of the cirriculam on the system. Some places teach you the basic 12 strikes and blocks, plus a few other things and you advance.
    But I'm not asking about Master and degrees above black belts.

    Just from beginner to advanced.

    And are all schools on the same or close to the same system?
  4. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-

    Seems to me you're in the San Fran bay area go to Prof. Hundon or go to 'Stickman' he is in El Sobrante(East bay) or go to Eskabo Daan a hybrid Serrada style with Kombatan in it. It depends on the Guro what is taught. There is GM Tony Davis in Sacramento, PG Darren Tibon in Stockton and GM Vincent Cabales in Stockton at the original school. Your choice.
  5. roger211

    roger211 New Member

    Stixmaster -

    Yes, I'm taking some classes under Prof. Hundon. But I believe his class is fundamentals or basics. Plus he only teaches on Tuesday in SF and I work at UCSF med center, so my schedule is erratic.

    He's a great teacher and a good guy.

    I was wondering in general how ranks go in serrada, and wanted to see how ranks compared from other styles. Not for comparsion against each other, but just trying to learn how things work in stick martial arts.
  6. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    Back in my college days when i was active (before GGM Angel passed), ranks were closely associated with the structure.

    Beginners were considered Level 1 Students. Once you showed enough proficiency in the basics (2-3 years training); ie salutation and meaning, history, 3 counters and 1 disarm (or entry), cinco teros, lock & block, flow sparring (patterned & free flow), you were then tested and certified as a Level 1 Instructor.

    At this stage, you were allowed to take on other beginner (Level 1) students. At the same time, you became eligible for Level 2 material; counters to level 1 counters, as well as counters to those counters (intro to traps). At the end of your Level 2 training, you would test/certify to become a Level 2 Instructor.

    This repeats itself for Level 3; application to bladed weapons and nuances. And on to Level 4, Open Hands application to material of previous levels. From what i understand, OPEN HANDS was considered the highest level; so one had to pay really close attention to any Cadena training one received.

    Last i heard, the structure had changed since the early 90's. I do not know if this structure is still followed by GM Vincent Cabales' group but i do know that Master Tacosa modified the structure for TC/E.
  7. roger211

    roger211 New Member

    interesting... thats what I wanted to know. Just a general time line for Serrada.

  8. MichaelJB

    MichaelJB New Member

  9. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    This is completely new to me and I was actively practicing Serrada Eskrima at Loyola University from about Fall 1987 to about Spring 1993. Under then Level 1 Instructor Aaron Cunningham (Certified by Master Tacosa, approval by GM Angel Cabales) for the first few semesters, then private lessons under Level 1 Instructor Dan Nemoto (Training under Jimmy, Certification by GM Angel Cabales). Throughout those years i would also see Master Tacosa at seminars. On top of that i was being prepped for Level 1 Certification, before i blew out my shoulder in at a Kickboxing Tourney. And there was never any lengthy discussion about sashes.

    However, i do remember Danny saying something once about sash rankings. But my recollection about the topic is faulty; he was either telling us that there was once a sash ranking system or that there was talk of implementing one. But then nothing after that and we never used sashes. For years, i've thought of the art in the stages i mentioned above: Level 1 student, Level 1 Instructor, Level 2 Instructor and so on.

    If there is a sash ranking system in place, it is my belief that it was probably something implemented in the later years. GM Angel was about tradition and traditionally the FMAs didnt use sashes. Using sashes is a Chinese MA thing... Ah yes, im beginning to remember a lil bit... I believe Danny told us that the sash thing was a way to appease the American sensibility as contemporary MA's in the USA use belts and sashes to give people a sense of advancement. For example, look at Karate. Old school karate has 3 belts: White, Brown, Black and degrees of Black. There is no yellow, orange, green, blue, purple, brown, or even red. The only thing i really remember absolutely is that (formally) wearing red on your head is forbidden until you have taken a life in combat. Until then, we could continue to wear any t-shirt, muscle shirt, sando, and comfortable jogging or MA pants of some sort.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  10. roger211

    roger211 New Member

    hmm. even more interesting. I know that many people in America want to see progress thru belts or some kind of recognition.

    I wanted to get a general idea so I can start plotting my progress.
  11. MichaelJB

    MichaelJB New Member

    My instructor didn't use rank either. All we had was student, guro, master.

    lol...I was able to plot my progress by the fact that as I got better, I got hit less less and less ;)
  12. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-

    Old days when the Master can't hit you then you're good, in the old days when they train you they actually hit you, the pain causes one to move & block, afterwards it becomes reflex. So when he no longer could hurt you you were ready ! You never needed a belt rank. Western society is achievement oriented, so they have to measure progress in whatever they learn.
  13. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    If you want to be commercially successful in the U.S. you almost have to use belts. People just expect it.
  14. roger211

    roger211 New Member

    /\ agreed.

    I used to not care about rank, I just wanted to learn techniques, but I also wanted to follow a ciriculumn so I can make sure I was learning what others are learning to get rank.
  15. Dagadiablo

    Dagadiablo New Member

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with a belt or sash type of system. It allows students to monitor their progress, but it also allows the instructor the opportunity to maximize the learning opportunity of his students by making sure that they are practicing appropriate material for the time they put in.

    Fact of the matter is, the Koreans, Chinese, Japanese Karate, Hawaiian Kenpo, Kajukenbo, the Brazilians and now the Malaysians, Indonesian and FILIPINOS have borrowed Jigaro Kano's ranking method he developed for Judo over a hundred years ago.

    You see, when Commodore Perry arrived in Japan in the 1860's(?) Japan realized how they had isolated themselves from modern civilization. The Samurai and their ideals and philosophies were considered obsolete. Including their fighting systems--especially when the sword faced a rifle or a canon (think of The Last Samurai).

    Samurai Jiu-jitsu was a dying art--and dying VERY FAST. The only ones teaching it were the OLD Warriors who didn't know how to teach in a structured manner. There was no Ukemi or breakfalls. You would fall and you would BREAK!! :) You can imagine the attrition rate!!

    What Kano did, was that he modernized this once very feared martial skill and created Judo. At first, everyone simply had a white belt which inevitably got dirty. Because it was made of cotton, it would shrink--so the students simply didn't wash them. Eventually, or so the story goes, the dirtiest belt typically indicated those who have trained the longest! From this Kano created the Belt Color System.

    You see, Kano created a ranking system and a sport in order to modernize a very beautiful art and skill of the Japanese warrior. Fact of the matter is, the Samurai were the Social Elite of Feudal Japan. They could piss on anyone lower than them, rape poor farmer's women--or even boys--behead people at will and venerate suicide!!! It's no wonder that modern Japan did not and does not wanted the Japanese people to be thought of as these brutal, savage people.

    Kano wanted to preserve the tradition, culture and art form of his heritage MINUS the brutality of the Samurai. He therefore created Judo which quickly gained worldwide popularity. Interesting note: Maeda Sensei--Kano's student and contemporary moved to Brazil and taught the art to the founders of the now famous Gracie Jiu Jitsu: Carlos and Helio Gracie. It is also ironic that Judo is known as the "gentle art" but those in the know and those who have played know that it can be furthest from that statement!

    Okay what's my point? Why the half assed history lesson? Well, what Kano did in Japan is much like what the Canete's did in the Philippines and with what Presas did with Modern Arnis in the United States.

    FMA was pretty much unheard of in the Philippines, at least until recently. FMA was practiced in the Provinces by poor farmers and in the City by the squatter's who had moved from the countryside. Most of the knife stuff developed from the "bogoy" or thugs who sat on the corner store "sa squina"
    drinking gallons of beer to suppress their appetite from not being able to eat--beer is cheaper that food. Also, it allowed them to forget about the fact that they can't find work to feed their families. Inevetibally, drunken stupor and frustration leads to fights. In the Philippines, more often than not, it means knifings.

    Guys, what you don't understand is that we like to believe that all of what we practice is a warrior art and yada,yada,yada. Sounds glamourous!!! But furthest from the truth!!! What makes our stuff so good, what make it soo practical, is that it was born from an environment of necessity. Obviously, it is still evolving! People in the Philippines are POOOOR and are frustrated. They lash out and fight, those who learn to protect themselves effectively pass on their ideas and concepts to their family.

    In that sense, there is no ranking system. No belt system. No Master or Grandmaster. Just Papa or Cuya.

    To go back to the Canete's and Presas's: if you go to the Philippines today, it still is very difficult for most people here to understand WTF you are talking about when you ask them where the nearest Kali, Eskrima or Arnis school is. "Arnis" wil probably elicit the most response. Again, the HARDCORE stuff isn't shown nor taught.

    Back in the 70's FMA was a dying art in the country of it's origin. Most young guys in Cebu can easily get a "paltik" or local Danao made gun for P300--or $8.00. If not through the efforts of Doce Pares by adding it into the PE curriculum of the schools in the P.I. as well as Guro Dan Inosanto teaching what was taught to him in Stockton by Manongs Leo, Angel and Juan, etc. than FMA would not be where it is today. In addition, Presas did a fantastic job spreading the concepts of the FMA on the East Coast.

    What made FMA soo popular in Amerca and now in the Philippines...

    (to b continued, had too many beers already!!! Need to sleep, SOOO Pinoy!)

    GLENNLOBO New Member

    Dagadiablo [​IMG]
    fantastic history lesson, and very informative. lots of stuff i didnt know and confirmation of stuff i did. cant wait for the next instalment
  17. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Having a curriculum became very important to us in Modern Arnis after Remy Presas passed--we wanted to make sure we didn't lose anything he had taught us. Preserving that knowledge, even if some of it is no longer emphasized, was very important to us.
  18. pahhhoul

    pahhhoul New Member

    +1 on Prof. Hundon being a good guy!
    I've had the honor and pleasure of working out with Prof.Hundon only a few times for short amounts.
    None the less the man is... like stated, to say the least: a good guy X 100!

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