PTK and DTK.

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by franci1911, Jul 18, 2007.

  1. Jack Latorre

    Jack Latorre Siyam

    Greetings--

    Quote from pguinto

    "i got an idea, while we're at it. lets change the country's name from Philippines to the pre-Hispanic name Maharlika

    my reasoning that the name Philippines denotes a naming convention derived from the foreigners (auslanders) that once occupied the land

    the archipelago was once called Maharlika prior to Spanish occupation, i think i like the idea of being called a Maharlikan or Maharlikai

    So who cares cares if a word isnt filipino in origin; we arent filipino in origin, we are maharlika, our peeps were there before the hispanoids.

    So really we arent doing Filipino Martial Arts (FMA), we are really doing MMA; ie Maharlikan Martial Arts, or better yet MAM; Martial Arts Maharlika."

    Honestly, there are nationalists who very much think this way and are looking for legislature to officially return to the term 'Maharlikas'.

    It really doesn't matter which term one prefers for whatever reason...'a rose by any other name...' GT Gaje prefers 'kali' because it is not a hispanized term...that seems like as good a reason as any other. It is really no big deal in the big picture. GT Gaje IS Filipino after all and it IS his art...and the term 'kali' is in fact in use...it seems silly to fuss over it just to have soap-box rights.

    What is more salient is that it is called Pekiti-Tirsia. It is a label for a body dynamic superimposed on to combative strategy that is fairly recognizable.

    What is even more pertinent is that a combative system serve the user, whatever that system be...whoever that user is. Pekiti-Tirsia is that system to me, as Muay Thai serves Ajarn Chai, as Modern Arnis serves Datu Hartman. I think the semantic volleys sometimes forget that.

    Best of luck in the respective systems you have chosen for your studies and keep in mind that the preparations for a 'fight' against each other is less time preparing for a 'fight' against a real enemy.

    All the best,

    Jack A. Latorre
     
  2. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    You might wanna read this.. http://cpcabrisbane.org/Kasama/2003/V17n3/ColonialName.htm
     
  3. Kailat

    Kailat KAILAT KOMBATIVES GROUP

    American by term, Filipino by heart

    " AMERICAN KALI!!" Sorry to stir up such a stink.. I was actualy presuming only to be sarcastic when I stated such a farce! However, it is just the example of how our society of the arts are becoming. I mean I studied and gained an 4th dan black belt in the system American Karate. The funny thing is its no more American than Japanese or Korean karate. We used to refer to it as American Tae Kwon Do and it was least of anything to do w/ TKD and so later it was coined American Karate. ( A generic term?) possibly but it worked...

    so as I see and hear all the bickering and semantics over the term and roots of KALI. I like many don't really care about where it comes from or how old it is. I care about is the practicality of the system. Be it Pilipino, Philippino,Filipino,Spanish, Hispanic, Marharlika, Indonesian, Malaysian, or for that matter AMERICAN,AMERIKAN or whatever or how ever anyone wants to consider it...It can be called " Tibetan Twisted Kali" for all I care. Whats in a name? To be truthfully honest these days whats pure and whats not? I can't imagine any specific martial art on the market today isnt as pure as gold, or the country it is represented from.

    Karate is supposed to be from Japan
    Taekwondo from Korea
    Kung Fu from China
    and here's the good one, Japanese & Brazillian JJ?

    All of these arts may of started somewhere, but they all end up elsewhere over global declaration and expandature. Its bound and determined that eventually someone is going to take what GM or GRAND TUHON or the Grand Dragon or what have you teaches them and puts his own twist and two cents worth in it. Then you have a tweekened version of what was once someone elses and then it became yours...whether or not it was meant to be that way, it ends up that way...

    U can take 2 groups of PTK one from USA and the other from Europe are you gonna have the same system? Heck are you gonna have the same system when a player from Texas or the southwest region of the US meets up w/ a player from the North East region of the country? I tend to think we'd alll like to think so.. but truth is its all different in the mix of things...Therefore we end up w/ as we'd like to say a "mixed pup of something that was once as pure as the hope diamond"

    So terming it AMERICAN vs. FILIPINO to me is just one of those things thats bound and determined to happen eventually...

    So lets not fret over a name... a name just dictates its standard lineage... but every family tree has branches that goes into the shade eventually....

    Peace be with you all... and happy training... ( train happy, be happy, who cares the name.) Tomorrow im going to train w/ my teacher who studied long time w/ Tuhon Gaje, but I would bet to say I find some of his own ways into things.... and when I pass it on.. I show my own ways into things...etc.. etc..

    U know its all this political jargon that really makes me sink to an all time low when it comes the martial arts. A) because I don't get involved in any of it . B) It's just a really waste of energy and time, when we can all be learning and training... If I have someone that comes to me and starts asking these questions it will be the time I decide to stop studying because its too bad that all this bickering has taken over positive training.
     
  4. Some quick curiosities:
    • Why is Kali marketed as "better" than Eskrima, Escrima, Arnis, Arnes de Mano, Panantukan, Estocada, Estokada etc... My delivery/defenses of angle one is probably like everyone else's angle one no? Of course there will be nuances, but generally, they are of the "Archangel Miguel (Michael)'s" powerful right to left diagonal strike
    • Just curious about the French: "piquette tercia"... anyone speak French here that can enlighten us about this relation (if there is one that is.)
    • also a side note: how about P/Filipino? P or F? shall we go into that too?
    C.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2008
  5. Banakun

    Banakun New Member

    True, no use arguing about Semantics. Hell, even my group uses the word kali as a shortened version of "Kaliradman" by choice since the term is purported to be the illonggo term for the art.

    My point in posting my previous thread was to try to clarify notions that "kali" is better than escrima or arnis, or that kali is the older art (and therefore more "combative?" More "authentic?") than the other arts "classified" as Arnis or Escrima. It's just same-same. While there are indeed SOME groups which can be perceived to be more watered down than others (and on this I'm being very frank about and accept to be true) one cannot say this to be true of ALL arts/systems using Escrima or Arnis as a term to name their art... since it's all SAME-SAME. Besides, "watered-down" is very subjective. So when I say this it is based on MY own standards, which I accept to also be limited (along with my knowlege of those other systems).

    If you ask me, as a cebuano-illonggo, I think the most exact Filipino term for the FMA would be "Pangamot." Among Cebuanos, when they say "Naa siya pangamot" (He has pangamot.)... it describes a person as being extremely adept in the use of his hands whether with weapons or without... a man good at fighting. I'm not sure if this is likewise acceptable in illonggo since my illonggo isn't all that deep. This is also very Flipino as the system/style isn't all that important as people tend to look more at the "person" rather than the style/system he uses. That is why so many "styles/systems" can come out of a single system. They don't say, "Maayu siya mag Doce-Pares..." (He's good at doing Doce Pares)... it's always "He's good with his hands" (regardless of what style/system he uses). In FMA, it is the person who is most important. [​IMG]

    Pangamot BTW comes from the word "kamot" which is "hand" in the Visayan languages.

    Soooo... PANGAMOT? Anyone?[​IMG]
     
  6. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    Pangamot won't jibe well with Tagalogs since it means either a "scratcher", (e.g. the wooden hand used to scratch one's back) or method to solicit alms.
    On a side note, some ilonggos I met don't consider themselves Visayans. It was like "I noticed your accent, are you visayan?" and the usual response would be, "Nope,I'm ilonggo!"
     
  7. Banakun

    Banakun New Member

    Hahahaha... yep! Regionalistic Pride! Bisaya as in "Cebuano" as against "Illonggo".

    You're right Raul... I was thinking more in the context of Central Philippines. Pangamot means something different for the Tagalogs and other Northern Regions. :)
     
  8. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    I like this idea! We can add the tag line "REALLY, as real as it gets!":biggrinbo
     
  9. Buwaya

    Buwaya Senior Member

    Uh no, no it wasn't. I think if you read the earliest Chinese, Brueneian and European documents of our islands you wont find one mention of the Maharlika's. You should scope out Raul's link. It's a pretty recent invention.
     
  10. Philippines contemplated original name to be Malaysia?

    Found this in Wikipedia (i know, not the best source but) interesting:

    "The name "Malaysia" was adopted in 1963 when the Federation of Malaya, Singapore, North Borneo and Sarawak formed a 14-state federation.[7] Yet, the name itself had been vaguely used to refer to unspecified areas in Southeast Asia. A map published in 1914 in Chicago has the word Malaysia printed on it referring to certain territories within the Malay Archipelago.[22][23] The Philippines once contemplated to name their state "Malaysia" but Malaysia adopted the name first in 1963 before the Philippines could act further on the matter."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines
     
  11. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    how about Archipelago Ginto, or Las Islas de Ginto not because it's kinda my last name, but isnt the philippines the biggest distributor/producer of gold in Asia? and the 3rd biggest to the world? :D

    The Golden Isles OR The Isles of Gold

    I like it i like it :D :D :D
     
  12. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    Hope not! You should realize what Ginto(gold) connotes when spoken as "oy nakaapak ka ng ginto!""Hey,you stepped on gold!"
     
  13. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I slightly edited the thread title to better reflect the broader discussion now occurring.

    -Arnisador
    -FMAT Admin
     
  14. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    i have no idea, i dont even know tagalog, im very 'cano, ya know what i mean?
    im not too familiar with the grammer, nor do i really understand any slang... :(

    i grew up with english as my first language, i probably know as much spanish as i do tagalog; and then mostly a word here and there

    imagine someone saying titiwala, i would think this means missing a certain male anatomical part, but im sure im wrong :D
     
  15. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    It ain't no slang meyn. Its an idiomatic expression euphemistically supplementing the muckful fecal part with the complementary awful hue of gold.:toilet:
    You were almost correct if only you didn't get too excited and added the extra "ti". Even then, it would mean trust which what dick tracy need to put on every time we stream fashion avenue.:sword2:
     
  16. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    • Better? Could have been a typo.. must be bitter spoken with a cleft palate.
    • How bout the Spanish piquete tercia or the German hammerterz?
    Filipino/Felipinas from Felipe ergo Hispanized.
    Pilipino/Philippines from Phillip ergo Americanized.
     
  17. Gilla

    Gilla -== Banned ==-

    It don't matter what Nene calls it , it is not PTK . He studied other arts until he saw that by saying it was the true Pekiti he could get some fame . He trained with the Supreme martial arts group Headed by Amador Chavez the also did karate and judo as well as arnis .
    Ed
     

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