PTK and DTK.

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by franci1911, Jul 18, 2007.

  1. Ventura

    Ventura -== Banned ==-

    lapit = near
    malapit = getting near/getting close

    How about let's just say that no one in here is an expert linguist or a "complete" authority in ALL Filipino martial culture and history back to un recorded times.

    Let's just go by what we know...

    This is what I know.

    dikit is to stick as in sticky like rice is sticky

    pikit is to close as in two objects getting close like your eyelids closing when you blink.

    For example... "I pikit ko muna ang mata ko." = I'm just going to close my eyes for a bit. I reference the eyes as in closing the eyes for pekit because this how I'm familiar with the use of the word. This is where I derive my understanding of the word pekiti.

    The first time I heard of the work pekiti I really didn't know what it meant until I realize that the root word was pekit same as pikit in tagalog meaning to close. Pekiti is the Illongo equivalent.

    Tirsia means thirds or three.


    My understanding and translation of the name is to close in by way of quartering. In other words close in by way of an angle that gives you the positional advantage. Doesn't that make sense? Another way I understand it is to close in within 3 moves. Translating pekiti to mean "to close" as in the closing or coming together of two objects. That's what happens in a fight.

    Every fight begins with the combatants being in range. Eventually there will be a clash. How you get there determines whether you're in a superior or inferior position. If you're dealing with multiple opponents your strategy must be geared towards reducing the amount of energy you waste on a single opponent. You must be able to close in and terminate in 3 moves. The success of closing in depends on how skillfull you quartered the opponent via the your footwork or by manuever. Quartering gives you the advantage of superior position.

    Pekiti means to close. Tirsia means in thirds or three. Quarter actually meanst four but you can only approach three at any given time.

    To close in in three moves via the best angles by quartering the opponent throught superior footwork. That's how I understand the meaning of Pekiti Tirsia.

    Now does the same logic follow with dikit as in to stick? I don't see it.
     
  2. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Really I know there is some bad blood but I would just say let it go. Everyone has a right to choose their path in this case someone chose so the while it may not be liked by some if you let it go then it simply does not affect you. [​IMG]
     
  3. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Sounds like good advice to me!
     
  4. guillermo taboada

    guillermo taboada New Member

    HELLO EVERYONE,
    I JUST HAVE A QUICK POINT OF VIEW TO OUR FRIENDS IN THIS FUROM.
    SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE TORTAL'S PROMOTING THIER ART TILL TODAY WAS A BIG ACCOMPLISED, THEY DID IT TRUOUT THE WORLD, AND FOR ME, BEING A FILIPINO ESKRIMADOR, WAS VERY PROUD OF THEM. AND SO TO OTHER STYLES OF ESKRIMA OR ARNIS THAT PROMOTES THIER ART. THE TORTALS ARE VERY GOOD ESKRIMADORS, THEY MAYBE HATES EACH OTHER BUT THEY DONT FIGHT PHYSICALLY BECAUSE, THEY ARE THE SAME FAMILY. AND AT THE END, FAMILY BLOOD WILL STICK TOGETHER.
    AND THAT IS MY WISH FOR BOTH OF THEM.
    BEING A GRANDMASTER OF BALINTAWAK, MY SECOND WISH, IS I HOPE BOTH OF THEM WILL ACCEPT ME AS ONE OF THIER STUDENT ONE DAY. I AM STILL LEARNING, AND I KNOW THAT THERE IS NO ENDING TO LEARN.

    GM BOBBY TABOADA
    www.internationalbalintawak.com
     
  5. viejo

    viejo New Member

    You are a truly GM Mr Taboada......Im sure everyone of your students is proud to have you as a Teacher....
     
  6. guillermo taboada

    guillermo taboada New Member

    THANK YOU MY FRIEND, AS I ALWAYS SAY, IT IS NOT JUST MARTIAL ARTS BUT, BULDING UP A GOOD FRIENSHIP.

    GM BOBBY TABOADA
     
  7. Banakun

    Banakun New Member

     
  8. Shaun

    Shaun New Member

    Yes.Echoing what my friend and Lightning brother Banakun said.
    My/our late Grandmaster was also a man of great intergrity and a gentleman,as indeed you are Grandmaster Taboada.
    PUGAY Grandmaster Bobby.
    Mabuhay ang Filipinas.
     
  9. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    Kali

    Dan Inosanto's use of the term "kali" was clearly determined by his association with eskrimadors influenced by Floro Villabrille. If it a short-hand version of the terms "Kamut Lihok" then it is a recently coined word or slang. Let me be clear, however: that a term is slang is does not mean that it is any less a word than a word established by tradition and custom. Yesterday's "xerox" and "coke" are easily understood by anyone today. For that matter, do we insist that the only words worth using today are the ones in common use during Shakespeare's day? (I challenge anyone to use "welkin" in a conversation about the weather today.) Why not just accept that "kali" is a new term used to describe ancient Filipino arts (for which there are either no terms, or indigenous terms not commonly used, or Spanish terms), and stop insisting that the argument is about whether the term was used hundreds of years ago?

    It was not - and many individuals who use the term are not insisting that it was. There are many reasons for using the term. GT Gaje, for example, appears to have substituted the term "kali" for the previously used "arnis" to accent the fact that Filipino martial arts are Filipino and not Spanish. It therefore establishes a new tradition and custom - one which will not turn heads a couple hundred years from now.

    Best,

    Steve
     
  10. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    Ancient arts and not so ancient arts wondrously look so similar, don't they? I didn't know arnis and escrima are not(?) Filipino words. But I am sure the word Kali as a fighting art isn't Filipino. It means a lot of things but a fighting art? Nah.
     
  11. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    Respect to GM Bob Taboada. An escrimador with great skills and humility.
     
  12. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    I am not sure whether you are reading something into my post that was not intended.

    No one knows what an ancient art looked like; the best that we can say is that someone practicing a traditional art learned from their forebearers, who learned learned from their forebearers, etc. - but what their ancestors practiced in ancient times is really anyone's guess. Of course, we have pictures and descriptions of how people fought (we can see hoplite armor and can recreate a Greek phalanx, e.g.), but what we interpret is necessarily colored by what we currently understand.

    Arnis and Eskrima are Filipino words but they are not Spanish terms or cognates. Kali is a modern Filipino word used to describe something that, as I mentioned in my post, is either un-named, an indigenous term (used by a tribe or clan dialect, etc.) or is described by a Spanish term. It is arguable that the term "eskrima" itsellf reflects the movement away from a Spanish term, else why don't we use the term "esgrima" to describe Filipino martial arts. "Welkin" in an English term that doesn't become less English because it has fallen into unuse or disfavor.

    When Filipinos use a new word to describe a fighting art, it becomes a Filipino word.

    Best,

    Steve
     
  13. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    I hope not but the word kali tends to excite lots of peoples minds.

    A modern word used to describe arts that have been and still are called arnis, escrima, estocada etc?
    It does not and doesn't have to. When the Spaniards started to call it escrima, the art didnt become Spanish or less Filipino. I won't call it esgrima since no Filipino, escrimador or not, called it that way.

    The thing is no one knows if the word kali the fighting art has been even used before. They can only trace it from a few former arnisadores and escrimadores starting from an arnisador named Placido Yambao circa 1950.

    It seems there are more non-Filipinos who are using the word kali to refer to a fighting art.
     
  14. Kailat

    Kailat KAILAT KOMBATIVES GROUP

    So why not just refer to it as American Kali?
     
  15. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    Grammatically u cannot do this. To say American Kali, connotes an art called kali of American origin, although it is just the word may be american in origin. Native flips need to understand that just because the name may be american in origin, it does not detract or lessen what is being practiced; it is still a martial art of filipino origin with filipino traditions.

    I dont see the big deal. If someone wants to call their art kali, let them, it is their perogative. We are all the sum of our experiences, so if i wanna call everything i do kili kili (pilipino for armpit) you cannot tell me i may not do so.

    People are so hung up on traditions that they forget, their forefathers went thru the same thing and created their own traditions along with the traditions that were passed to them. Everyone takes what they do and it becomes their own due to their experiences and abilities. Abilities will vary due to height, weight, physical conditioning, psychology, etc. So what anyone teaches will usually be favorable to that persons physical and mental disposition plus his experiences.

    Every student should hope that his teacher conditions in him the bare basics and then hope his teacher helps him to work on his strengths and weaknesses.

    There are many roads to the same end; and ultimately we all will wind up 6 feet under. We are all training for honorable reasons (hopefully). And to fight amongst ourselves for something silly as a name only detracts from that. If someone's naming convention bothers one then one has too much idle time. There really are more important things in this world to worry about.

    akong dalawang centabos
    (hope i said and spelled that correctly)
     
  16. GLENNLOBO

    GLENNLOBO New Member

    i'm interested to know more about your armpit style.. what are its defining qualities? one of my silat teachers used to refer to silat jilat (licking silat) just cos it rhymes. the name is often totally irrelevant and people get too hung up on it. there are spelling issues in silat as to which is original and more authentic. its all just hot air.

    your serious point however is well made.
     
  17. wes tasker

    wes tasker New Member

    I hear you on this one. Pencak or Pentjak - when you get hit, it doesn't matter how it's spelled :).

    -wes tasker
     
  18. Christian

    Christian New Member


    Oh, in fact we use a spice called Anis, which is sometimes pronounced similar like Arnis :) Sometimes this causes confusion...

    Regards
    Christian
     
  19. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    i got an idea, while we're at it. lets change the country's name from Philippines to the pre-Hispanic name Maharlika

    my reasoning that the name Philippines denotes a naming convention derived from the foreigners (auslanders) that once occupied the land

    the archipelago was once called Maharlika prior to Spanish occupation, i think i like the idea of being called a Maharlikan or Maharlikai

    So who cares cares if a word isnt filipino in origin; we arent filipino in origin, we are maharlika, our peeps were there before the hispanoids.

    So really we arent doing Filipino Martial Arts (FMA), we are really doing MMA; ie Maharlikan Martial Arts, or better yet MAM; Martial Arts Maharlika.

    ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2008
  20. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Having seen American Karate, American Kenpo, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, etc., hearing American Kali doesn't strike me as being all that bad anymore, though I don't really liek such names as a rule. Heck, Japanese Karate is already off--it's like calling the luau or hula dance American traditions rather than Hawaiian.
     

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