Progression in training?

Discussion in 'Lameco' started by gagimilo, Feb 1, 2008.

  1. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    I was wondering if there is any particular progression in Lameco training mthat is commonly followed? I mean, are some of the weapons taught before some others, i.e. if certain weapons/tools are more suited as a praparation to other ones and why? The same about training methods... I understant that in his backyard group PG Sulite used to have people spar from their day one, so I was wondering if everyboudy was participating in all training methods, or if not, what was the criteria, and so on.

    I know this is a little bit of a demanding question, i.e. not easy to respond to in just few sentences, but any information would be most welcome.

    Maraming salamat!
  2. Guro Dave Gould


    Solo Baston, Doble Baston, Dos Manos Largos, Baraw, Doble Baraw, Itak, Itak at Baraw, Mano-mano.

    Traditionally this is how the system was taught. However for his advanced students any class could could any weapon or weapon combination right hand or left. I hope that this helps, ciao.

    Guro Dave Gould.
  3. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    It sure does sir, thank you very much for teh quick response! BTW, in this case , does the dos manos largos refer to the longer stick/staff or some sort of empty hand methods?
  4. Guro Dave Gould



    These are typically the weapons and weapon combinations that we trained from basic to advanced levels in the curriculum and how PG Sulite referred to them:

    Solo Garote / Baston - Single Stick
    Doble Garote / Baston - Double Stick
    Dos manos Largos - Long Stick - Staff
    Baraw / Daga - Knife
    Doble Baraw / Daga - Double Knife
    Itak - Sword
    Itak-at-Baraw / Espada-y-Daga - Sword and knife
    Buto-buto / Mano-mano - Empty Hand
    Improvised - Weapons of opportunity

    Guro Dave Gould.
  5. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    Thanks again. I was pretty much fami.,iar with the termiology, with the exception of the long staff, which in this case was a little bit confusing.
    Now, with the risk of being too demanding, I wonder if all the weapons were following the same teaching progression in teh sense of training methods? I guess it starts with abecedario, but what after...?
  6. Guro Dave Gould



    Hello there, I hope that all is well with you in Serbia and that you are training well and keeping yourself challenged daily.

    Dos Manos Largos literally is translated as "two hands long". This refers to any weapon where two hands are required to wield it, such as a staff.

    As for you other question the same curriculum is used when learning any weapon or weapon combination only differing in utilization based solely on the emphasis of the weapon used. Let us use Abecedario tuloy-tuloy as an example, the numbering system will remain the same as you deliver each strike but you will strike differently on impact with garote than you would with Itak which would be used differently on impact than baraw. As well the recovery measures would differ drastically one from the other based entirely on the emphasis of the weapon used and the amount of distance required to be traveled and used with positive effect. The less distance traversed the less distance that is required to recover center. The greater distance traversed the greater the distance required to recover center. Less is more, move less succeed more...

    A number one is a number one but with garote it is required of you to gain much momentum in order to be effective on impact so a deeper more powerful strike with full follow through is necessated to be effective whereas with Itak or baraw momentum is not as necessary because of the cutting edge so therefore you can strike "walang bunot" (not throwing the tip behind you) and still be very effective on impact which also facilitates the recovery process once center has been violated because you are violating less distance from center.

    After the abecedario you would learn to strike and counter while moving and being forced to move. Than you would thouroghly develop the delivery system, attributes, non-telegraphic striking, perception and reaction, location / relocaton principles, Hand evasions, line of engagement, breaching distance, center line theory, manufacturing opportunity, interrorgating center line, counter to counter activity, target aquisition, and then dig into a very involved curriculum for technique, combative principles and concepts and their counters.

    When things start to come together it is time to spar or fight out everything in a noncompliant training environment facing a resistive opponent where everyone is equally held accountable for their actions or failure to act. At this time you allow the situation to become your teacher and actual experience will quickly gain your confidense and without doubt it will become your best adviser and consultant in all things combative.

    Lameco Eskrima is not a system that can easily be learned out of a book or from a series of video tapes it has to be experienced, it has to be trained daily with intention against someone who is not afrid to keep you challenged. Only when challenged with our training will we see the necessity to become better and better hone our skills and likewise Only when we are forced to fight against much adversity will the necessity arise to create success from failure. Only under threat of being defeated do we recognize the true value of success and only by being denied success from our training partner do we realize the necessity to fight and turn failure into success when it is most important; when defending life and limb in the cold hard streets that envelop us. The situation dictates appropriate counter measures and when and how you deliver your deadly intent will determine whether you will live or be left for dead, if you react at all.

    Lameco Eskrima is one of the most effective systems out there but if not trained properly, as is with any system, individual results will vary... some poor, some good and some exceptional. As with Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite it was never "what" he did that made him such a devastating fighter but rather "how" he did what he did that differentiated him from everyone else on his skill level. When you train as if your life depends on it you will fight as if it does as well...

    The techniques, principle and concepts may vary only slightly between differing Pilipino Warrior Arts the measure of a warrior is not necessarily based on how many of these things that you know but rather how you move and what your combative effect is when it matters most.

    Only when you can apply your combative prowess with positive effect against an unwilling opponent who desires to kill you as much as you want to live, while facing a dire situation whose structure constanly changes and being forced to deal with the unexpected attack in random exchange and counter exchange will you have what is necessary to survive a probable life threatening crisis situation.

    Daily training is so essential in Mastering any system but especially Lameco Eskrima because there is so much demanded from combative movement and ones delivery system.

    Go well Dragan, ciao.

    Guro Dave Gould.
  7. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    Thank you so much for your input here sir!

    You have an exceptional talent of putting things relating to training in words, so much so as the matter of fact, that quite often I can learn things from your articles even on subjects that I thought I knew (though I am aware that one can never know everything on anything)...
    I especially like what you said about not only knowing WHAT to do, but rather HOW to do it... If I may add, I believe that also important is WHY. Too bad that too many people are stuck with the first one...

    Regarding my training, I am keeping it regular and hard, even being freshly married ;-)

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