Preparation for Tournament/Competition

Discussion in 'General' started by Phil Mar Nadela, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Everyone says this, but the jump is so unexpected that I get away with it much more often than not (because I do it very rarely in the first place). So, I agree in principle, but...
  2. Depends who you spar I guess ...

    Here's an example I get hit with from GM.

    -He goes to strike low.
    -I step back avoiding the strike.
    -I step forward again, feeling good that I've evaded the strike.
    -He was waiting for me all along to make that step and strikes my leg.

    This also embodies the main principles of our system - enganyo, monitoring and preparation.

    I would probably get hit 3 times before I landed if I tried that jump on him. I understand where you're coming from. We don't always spar people with 30 years + experience. But shouldn't we train as if we do?
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  3. Phil Mar Nadela

    Phil Mar Nadela New Member Supporting Member

    I tried to do lutang but it seems that the guys we compete with charged us all the time, I noticed this with one of my seniors’ opponent that comes from the same school. So I had no choice but to jump and let instincts take over.
    The student of Master Suanico was allot harder to beat, He used his eyes to trick me a couple of times.

    I am hoping to go to a seminar next month on Kali Academy by Guro Sonny down at red deer. Hopefully there are plans to do another tourney next year, which we will be competing.

    The Academy of European Swordsmanship art was planning to have an open tourney this summer. If it goes through, we will compete in that also.
  4. Sounds like you've got a lot planned Phil :) Your instincts were obviously right - you won!

    I find the "Lutang" something difficult to get right. TBH I still don't get the "How, when, where?" of it and it's something I'm working on. I *think* it should only be used when somebody is committed to the act of striking below the waist. If they change this to a charge you can place the floating foot down in the rear and remove the front one - striking again. The timing and balance is key too. Definitely a lot going on there!

    That's funny about the eyes. I was watching some MMA last week (UK V USA UF) and the Brit guy got a knockout. He looked down and roundhoused the other guy in the head. In the interview after the fight he smiled and said "The oldest trick in the book!". I regulary get caught out with something similar with GM Yuli LOL.
  5. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Yes thanks for the link!
  6. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Congratulations Phil! [​IMG]
  7. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    The lutang is what it is....and it can be applied for numerous scenarios..not just works well in many capacities. Most people believe that when they lutang that it is simply an in and out maneuver...err..wrong..or should I say in my case it is not. I teach my people lutang with a host of various choices for re-entry..or re-direction (who says you have to come back on the exact same line you went out on?)

    I truly don't see it as a lot...I see it as natural, simple movement...the options and the usage will only come from the individual player who takes it out of it's box and places it under his own microscope..making the movement work for you.
  8. Well PG Mike, as you well know neither does GM Yuli. All he sees is move in, move out. Left foot right foot.

    I hear you regarding the other applications for the movement. It can be used against a kicker to unbalance them. I have also been poked in the eyes by GM when I was focusing on the knife and not on him. You can also use it to get to the blind spot of an opponent by off-lining. Horse for courses and all that...

    Like any movement it should become instinctive. If you see Tatang in that video you can bet he didn't have to think about it.

    I mentioned "Monitoring" and "preparation" before and therein lies the rub. Just as we monitor with our hands and torso what the opponent is doing we also have to monitor with the feet. I personally find the ability to stop that floating leg returning and re-positioning on the fly pretty challenging. I think this was what Phil was alluding to when being "Charged".

    Again, the movement itself can be learnt in one session. The "How, when and where" to apply it can take significantly longer...

    Getting back on topic I can see how people would resort to "instinct" in favour of movements they find difficult - and that they have to think about.

    In sparring as long as you win I don't think it really matters!
  9. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Mang Yuli is quiet adept at this. I do not view it as move in and out..I view it as move. I rarely if ever follow the same line in as I took out...a lutang can turn into a drop step..into a switch step..into a 90 or 45 degree angle entry..or even into low kuda is all predicated on what doom I choose to bring from the offerings of the enemy!

    Yes it can.....find the key that turns the crank and you will find it's all the same yet highly different ;)....lutang dumog is very nasty..nasty indeed! is like a coke machine falling from the sky..and an escalator going down at mach 3.

    He is his center line and crash his angles, come blindly over the top to get to the bottom! ;)

    Yah man..a horse is a horse of course of course unless the horse turns out to be a burro!

    Tatang was a scientist..he took the movements of his journey and comprised them to work for him....problem is so many now mimic and refuse to take his work and expound on it for themselves. When 30 looks like 84 one must assume that little to no work is being done. Mimicry is not is a placebo for never will be!

    Monitor with your mind..all else falls into place...go ugly early and win..ambush ambush cuts the monitoring time way down...but then again I do not advocate dueling...just ambushing!

    Put it in your lab and dissect it..make it work for you..that is the key!

    The hours matter not the years

    In combat..real combat, not sparring..instinct is what we revert comes down to a few things you do well.

    In sparring as long as you learn is what combat winning is the any and all means necessary..AMBUSH!
  10. Again, I see where you're coming from but would be inclined to say:

    "Experience counts far more than any segment of time".

    Also for me:

    Tournament sparring = Winning
    Sparring in training = Learning and Evolving
    Combat = Surviving

    Just my thoughts...
  11. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    A good thing..but never rule out good old fashioned **** House Luck...saved more bacon than most would care to believe.

    You have me here..I do not agree at all with tournaments. Anything with armor..or soft sticks etc. to me leads to unsafe one trains is how he will conquer!
    Exactly...but here again limited armor or preferably 0 armor.

    while surviving is paramount one must also merely survive can leave one in a truly mucked up state..FOR LIFE...hence my ambush stance. As Gaje says "you may get better but you will never be well"...and IMHO to merely survive means you may never get well.....I prefer to any means necessary.

    Mindset is key to that very survival!

    Go Ugly Early & Win!
  12. I'm sure I related something I read in a seal bio that kind of touches on what your saying a while back.

    They were all set to take out an encampment. They looked through the binoculars but the VC were all relaxed. They had planned to sail right in through the "front door". However, some random event changed their mind (I forget which) so they took the back way in and "Ambushed" them. The seal commented that that was how warfare should be. In the back of the head, before they got a shot off.

    They subsequently realized that the "Front door" was bobby trapped to hell. The seal said that it was the "back door" and "ambush" all the way after that...!

    So luck was involved, but he had to have had the experience to learn from it as well. There is no discounting luck but again, I'll take experience and try and make my own luck. Which I do often push at times ;)

    Regarding the sparring, you know how we roll here in the P.I. :)

    However, it has to be noted that PG Edgar Sulite developed his style of training gloves because of the amount of hand injuries sparring without them caused. I remember reading an account of one of his students saying that previously his fingers never healed from one session to the next.

    I believe in the limited armour approach - to a point. If it stops one training or from carrying out their chosen profession then it has to be reconsidered.

    Now, if you're a FT Martial Artist then I guess it's all good!

    GL with the classes and goodnight from the PI.

  13. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I dunno...there's also something to be said for playing the odds. And in my experience it's the ones with no training who so often do something outrageous that sneaks past because I "know" no one in their right mind would do that.

    Dr. Gyi says you need to train to fight an untrained fighter; a trained fighter from a different style; and a trained fighter from a similar style. Others say it's a boxer, grappler, and kicker.
  14. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    Footwork and timing is the very most essential element in any fighting art... Without it, you will get runned down no matter how good you are with a stick/knife,sword...

    Just like in sports, everything is about footwork... Look at football players, the quarterbacks, running backs, defensive backs, all of them... They rely on great footwork and timing in order to execute plays... If a QB does not have great footwork, he will be sacked... Same as in martial arts, like boxing, Muay Thai, FMA... Footwork and timing is essential, it's not just something you learn, it has to be the most important element above all else... It is your bread and butter...

    That is why we martial artists must train in our footwork most of the time... It is what will save us and makes us victorious...

    Yes, Phil was victorious and he did a great job... And I'm happy for him... But like any athlete, after the game is done and you relish the victory, you go back and watch tapes to see what else you can do and dissect it...
  15. Arnisador,

    I take your point about beginners, and find this especially true in empty hands,

    Have you ever seen a beginner / novice do something outrageous with a stick / knife that sneaks past an FMA Master?
  16. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    Depends on the master... Not all masters are indestructible... There are some self-proclaimed masters and Tuhons who can get runned down by an intermediate student... Not necessarily his/her student but a student of another one's system/style...

    So it would depend on the student and the master...
  17. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Probably not, now that you mention it...but I've never seen any of them seem so surprised or move so quickly as when a beginner does something so "stupid" it's completely unexpected! But I agree that empty hands is where you most see it--less so with the stick and in my experience even less so with the knife.
  18. Phil Mar Nadela

    Phil Mar Nadela New Member Supporting Member

    I know kuya! The eyes get me all the time. However i have a trick that my BJJ friend told me, i don't know if you notice but on one of my fights i let my guard down and pretended to walk away. And when he charges i strike! Gets them all the time.
  19. Phil Mar Nadela

    Phil Mar Nadela New Member Supporting Member

    A begginers point of view

    Thank you for the advice Kuya PG micheal and Kuya Simon.

    As for my training i know it is not complete (and not sure if it will ever be) , as my Guro always tell me there is a difference with tournaments and real life. He tells me that tournaments in his days was live stick and with no armor at all ( he also fought empty hand).
    I sometimes try to get stories of his "real fights", but I could tell that he does not like talking about them.
    I think in a real fight, I will probably not win/survive.

    I still have allot to learn and I hope to be half as good as my instructor.

    Thank you for all who congratulated me, I am really honored.[​IMG]
  20. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Brit with a stick

    Yep the jump if used on the rare occasion can catch people unaware. I have used it to great success over the years, a Pinoy freind of mine who also started competing at the same time as me in the late 80's said to me once that his first memory of me was seeing this big ginger monster flying across the ring in the air and land one almighty blow on the other poor unsuspecting Pinoy friend of his :augen22:

    But I have seen a guy over here in the UK who over uses it, he tends to jump up and down like a Kangeroo on speed :tantrum: and for a while some people where letting him get away with it simply because they thought he was good, I mentioned one day to a guy, why dont you just check him in the chest? With that he was begining to land on his arse more often than not because everyone cottoned on to his misuse of jumping.

    So anything if done right can work in the right situation.

    Best regards


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