Police Kerambit?

Discussion in 'General' started by punisher73, Jul 8, 2009.

  1. punisher73

    punisher73 Member

    I used to work with another LEO that had a karambit that clipped behind his magazine pouch. It was marketed for this purpose to LE, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was called or who made it.

    Does anyone know who makes it and the name of it?
     
  2. Bahad Zubu-Florida

    Bahad Zubu-Florida New Member

  3. KaliGman

    KaliGman Professional Man at Arms

    Police knife

    I do not know of any karambit that was marketed in this fashion for police officers. There are several custom makers who designed and built various karambits, so one of these makers may have marketed a blade in such a manner.

    However, I do know that Kabar was marketing the TDI as a police backup knife to be used as an aid in handgun retention (cut the bad guy off of your duty handgun). They have several versions of the TDI, and the smallest version (the "Last Ditch" model) was marketed in the fashion you are talking about---or at least I saw this methodology of concealment demonstrated at a police convention where I was doing a presentation. I believe there was also something about this method in one of the gun magazines--maybe American Handgunner?

    The TDI is not really a karambit. It does not have a retention ring. However, it has a very curved handle and blade and functions, somewhat, like a karambit if held in reverse grip edge out. In addition, the "Last Ditch" model does have a finger hole in the back. It does not really function well as a true karambit (rotating to the "extended forward grip" is awkward and slow, etc.), but maybe this is what you are talking about: http://www.knivesplus.com/ka-bar-knife-tdi.html?

    I am actually not a big fan of the TDI or of "cutting the bad guy off your duty handgun" as a primary weapon retention technique, but to each his own. I hope this helped.
     
  4. jezah81

    jezah81 Member

  5. Killbot

    Killbot Sereeus Biznus

    I actually carry one of these. I'm, not a LEO, so gun retention isn't my goal. But it's a very comfortable knife for being as small as it is in my large hands. I have the ankle knife version, but I carry it on my belt. Its balanced well for the odd shape and is EXTREMELY sharp. I've luckily never had the occassion to use it, but I've practiced with it a bit on some tires and I've become quite fond of the little thing.

    I shopped around for something with a curved body and a legal carry length blade. The TDI is what I found. I was going to get a kerambit, but I couldn't find one I liked that met my needs... and I was afraid if I ever did have to use it to defend myself, I'd be the one who ended up infront of a judge because kerambits just look evil and malintentioned. I'm always concerned that carrying a knife can give the impression of "just looking for trouble." Should something happen and the police be involved, they don't know me and could possibly jump to the worst conclusion about my character. And I think a kerambit just looks like trouble. lol. but if you are a LEO, then thats not much of a factor.

    The TDI looks more tactical and functions in much the same way. And yes, not a kerambit.
     
  6. punisher73

    punisher73 Member

  7. KaliGman

    KaliGman Professional Man at Arms

    Options are good

    Having a bunch of options is good. However, I have seen the TDI touted as the weapon retention tool, and see this type of posturing as a gear based solution to a training and mindset problem. Having been a police officer, police instructor, and police firearms instructor, having taught quite a few officer survival classes, and currently being a certified instructor with my federal agency, I've seen quite a few different approaches and methodologies to keeping your duty gun in your holster and/or away from the badguy. I have run some force-on-force sessions on this and you might be surprised how few people could get a training knife into play in a weapon takeaway situation, and how many who did get the knife into play "cut" themselves instead of, or as well as, cutting the bad guy off their weapon.

    If you have quite a bit of FMA under your belt and can "divorce your hands" under stress (you can grab the opponent's arm/hand that is attempting to take your firearm and keep contact with this limb with one of your hands while deploying a blade with your other hand), you have good checking hands skills, and you remain cool under combative stress, then the knife becomes a very viable option. For most people, a break in concentration on securing the gun occurs when they attempt to deploy the knife, and the gun often is lost during the drill.

    To tell you the truth, I am pretty good at these drills, but, when, once upon a time, a guy tried to take my M-4 away during an arrest and building clear, I did not use a knife to peel the bad guy off the gun. The knife is a nice option to have, though. I always like having more choices than less and generally am in the "rather have a piece of equipment and not need it, than need a piece of equipment and not have it" camp when it comes to gear.

    Just my opinons anyway--your mileage may vary.
     
  8. geezer

    geezer Member

    A question for you LEOs. Look, I understand that if someone makes a grab for your gun, anything goes... and that a knife or anything else that works is fair game. But outside of this particular scenario, how much application is there for using bladed weapons in policework? I'm guessing, not too much.
     
  9. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Good points brother. I also see it as a what if on the other foot. I built a PCCT (police control capture tactics) course designed from the bad guys view. I worked with the Waycross Georgia PD. I was amazed at their lack of ability when it came to weapons usage and retention. They believed they were doing right, hell the book said so ;). I used the fma/silat work and easily got to their holstered weapon. The gentleman I was working with used the old gun side back...front stance with a straight left arm shield and thus my bridge was offered. I taught the PD how to interview from the advantageous position and what signs to look for from said interviewee. I had them using counters to angle movements to their flanks, how to improvise with weaponry, third hand usage and simple body traps.

    I found the same mindset when it came to their usage of the asp. The cocked asp and the other hand making a nice bridge as it was pushed forward. I explained to them that this concept is definitely a dead mans hand...sooner or later AA & 888's just won't hold up.

    I don't understand why the law mandates such crap tactics to be used by ill prepared people. It seems to me that politically correct is the fashion they seek while staking the lives of officers on a hunch that some crazy bastard out there doesn't know anything. In today's world of UFC, MMA, Steroids and just big crazy sum-bitches who are young and dumb the chances that they may have to deal with these types has just gone from 100-1 to a close 10-2...and when it is 10 -2 all bets are off.
     

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