Pocket Sticks.

Discussion in 'Misc. Stick Arts' started by arnisador, Apr 26, 2006.

  1. SAL

    SAL Junior Member

    Here is an example of an Okinawan pocket stick. It is perfect for use in Modern Arnis empty hand applications.The finger loop allows for weapon retention and the tapered ends are excellent for pressure point strikes.

    Sal[​IMG]
     
  2. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    Sal,

    You brought some to the meet and greet. How can one purchase such a pocket stick?

    Carol
     
  3. SAL

    SAL Junior Member

    I have a few pair available now and I'm getting more in a few months.
    E-mail me and I'll make arangements to get anyone who's interested a pair.

    SAL
     
  4. Waltyr

    Waltyr Member

    Very Nice!!!

    Greetings,


    I would definetly be interested in knowing where you purchased those pocket sticks. By all means, please post the info. and price so that I could get hooked up with a couple as well!!!


    W.v.
     
  5. MSTCND

    MSTCND New Member

    Guro Sal,

    Would you please stash away a set of pocket sticks for me?

    I'll pick them up at Datu Hartmans Seminar next month...

    Thank you!

    Best Regards,

    Andy
     
  6. SAL

    SAL Junior Member

    My contact info is at www.cebuwest.com

    E-mail or call me and I'll make arrangements for exchanging info.

    Andy, got a set put aside for you. See you at the seminar.

    Sal

    Here's what they look like with the pouch.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. MSTCND

    MSTCND New Member

    :bow:
     
  8. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I more and more look for folding knives that extend far enough on each side of my fist in the closed position that I can use them as a pocket stick. I'm surprised how many fall just short of this!
     
  9. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    Folder as Pocket Stick

    I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread that I like Benchmade's AFCK folder because it can double as a pocket stick. Tuhon William McGrath from Pekiti Tirsia International has a nice clip about the transition that can be made from empty hand to pocket stick (palm stick) to knife using the same basic movements on this link.

    Best,

    Steve Lamade
     
  10. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    Spyderco calls this an "urban tactical utility knife"

    The handle was designed for pressure point/less-lethal uses.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Yes, that's what I mean! Looks neat, by the way.
     
  12. Silence_sucks

    Silence_sucks New Member

    Has anyone read some of the Don Rearic pocket stick articles on http://www.donrearic.com/ ? That guy brings up some good points on the usefulness and validity of the pocket stick as weapon and the differences (or lack of) between the various types. As mentioned before the finger loop should make grabbing no problem and the stringed varients are less likely to leave you with broken fingers in a struggle than the solid rings. Also that rotating pocked stick on the ring was an interesting idea for concealment any opinions?
     
  13. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    Interesting stuff! I hadn't read the articles before. His writing style is a bit tedious, but he lays out quite a bit of information to consider when using a pocket stick.

    As far as the validity....just my personal opinion....but in my experience the people that question the validity of the weapon haven't had any training on it or don't have a fundamental understanding of Physics.

    If I may put my engineering hat on for a moment...

    Pressure = Force over Area: P = F/A

    This can be restated as...

    Force = Pressure over Area: F = P/A

    Pressure and Area are inversely proportional.

    If the force of two punches is the same, the force spread over a greater area is going to result in lower pressure than force concentrated in a smaller area.

    One example I posted on another board...

    There is a part of the building where we are doing some remodeling. Across the floor were some old hunks of ceiling tile. I needed something at the other end of the room, but told the building manager I didn't want to walk across the tile given the shoes that I was wearing.

    He said it was OK, because the tile was about to be discarded.

    So, I walked across the ceiling tile and....claaaack claaack claaaaack...I was making a tremendous amount of racket doing it. My high heels (OK, they were more like 'medium-heels'" were puncturing the tile. Every step I made showed the print of my heel.

    However, my 200+ pound building manager walked across it wearing his work shoes and he didn't have anywhere near the destructive effect on the tile.

    It made me think about how a small spike can concentrate a lot of force.

    So, I'm wondering about this as an experiment.

    I'd like to take a large hunk of that old tile, or industrial styofoam, and mount it flush against a wall. Once in position, I'd hit one area with my bare knuckles, and another with a kubotan, then compare the indentations made from the impact.

    I haven't done the experiment yet. However, I predict that the outcome would be...both made an impact, but the impact from the kubotan would be smaller, more focused, and much deeper.
     
  14. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Don Rearic used to post a lot at MartialTalk (as Don Rearic, IIRC). He has some interesting material--I certainly didn't always agree, but it was generally thought-provoking and worth considering.

    (Hmmm, I think you want F=PA, force/area times area gives total force.)



    Yup. Your experiment would be interesting...but then we'd still need to know which has a greater impact on the human body: Concentrated force, or distributed force. It seems intuitively clear to me that it's the former.

    One things about this is that you'd just plain feel free to hit harder when you knew you couldn't hurt your hand (knuckles). I'd suggest using your tactical flashlight for the experiment if I didn't know your 'success rate' in breaking them!
     
  15. Silence_sucks

    Silence_sucks New Member

    Ahhh stop it!! I just finished school and your brining me back to my horrible engineering lessons! haha i know what you mean though, i liked Don Rearics method of proving the validity of the pocket stick by encouraging people to take the blunt end of a pencil, smash it against the back of their hand and see if they still think pocket sticks are useless. That guy has some good stuff and your right about him laying out info (despite the tediousness) though his use of headings highlights the points he makes exremely well and he makes some good points especialy in some of his articles describing fighting overall and knife/defence laws and politics.
     
  16. nash

    nash New Member

    I think pocket sticks are great. I like that you can lock in the attackers joints, which is perfect for me since I tend to use my legs more. I can lock the attacker in and knee and kick them all I want.
     
  17. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    DOH! . Thanks for the correction. I'm getting my terms mixed up and getting everyone confused. Perhaps I really need to stick with telecom...LOL!

    Hey Silence,

    Sorry to bring back nightmares! :D :D :D



    Yeah, but it has a lifetime warranty...even when the light is used for (ahem) non-traditional reasons. ;)

    That's actually a great suggestion. I'd like to try it.

    Your question of whether concentrated force or distributed force has more of an effect on the human body is a damn good one.

    I'd speculate that in most cases, concentrated force has more of an effect.

    After all...this how knives "work", yes? The reasons why knives do damage is because the force is concentrated in one or two thousandths of an inch. When the blade gets dull...what has happened is that the edge of the blade has worn to an area that is too thick. Sharpening the edge of a knife is nothing more than thinning the edge of a knife...which allows the same pressure to penetrate deeper.
     
  18. nash

    nash New Member

    I'm sure this is right. There is scientific evidence to support this. It's like this, think of the way we are trained to fall. Spread out and land flat and the shock is distributed over the entire area, which hurts consideribly less than falling in a ball shape and having the force consentrated on one area of your body. It helps keep bones from breaking and can help you feel less pain.
     
  19. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Yet...the 'stopping power' of a bullet is a hydrostatic effect that is distributed over the body via the pressure wave the bullet causes. The immediate effect is due to a distributed (wave) result of a point force, while the lethality is due to the damge caused by the highly concentrated force itself (damage due to the bullet's path).

    A concentrated strike from a pocket stick causes more pain and is more likely to break a bone or rupture something. But what about the same force delivered via a slapping palm-strike to the head? Might it be more likely to cause a concussion (global effect), whereas the pocket stick is more likely to cause a skull fracture (point failure)? I don't know.
     
  20. nash

    nash New Member

    Very good question. I'm not sure on this since a concussion is the brain touching the inner wall of the skull. I would think that a fracture caused by concentrated point force would also cause the the brain to concuss. I would have to talk to a few of my medic and doctor friends to see what they think about the subject.
     

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