Pocket Sticks.

Discussion in 'Misc. Stick Arts' started by arnisador, Apr 26, 2006.

  1. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    On MartialTalk there is a [thread on pocket stick usage. It is being disparaged by some and praised by others. Personally, I wouldn't be likely to carry one for its own sake. I've carried kubotans before and find them too bulky compared to their value. While a pocket stick increases the effect of a strike, it also limits the ability to grasp with that hand. It's a net benefit to have the stick, I believe, but not a sufficiently big benefit to justify carrying one. If I'm going to bother carrying something, I'd rather have at least a blade, unless it was restricted (work rules, etc.).

    On the other hand, I do like to know how to utilize a small flashlight or unopened folder (if there wasn't time enough to open it), etc., just in case. So, I see value in playing with the dulo-dulo on occasion. I prefer striking than the locks, but I do know that one can get some very painful locks with them. Where they really shine is destructions!

    Some people see the fact that you can't grab as well with a stick in your hand as a big disadvantage. I think if I carried one regularly then I'd want a lanyard or other way of securing it; but even still, while I see the point, it's not a particularly important one to my mind. I can always drop it if it's doing more harm than good! But, I think I can grab well enough with the top two fingers and retain with the lower two, and as it'd like be in my striking, not grabbing, hand, I probably would not be grabbing with it. A grab could be changed to a painful punyo press with the stick instead.

    As to pens, I see them more as daggers than sticks, so I think of that as an application of knifework.
     
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Junior Member

    I carry 2 tools with me a small maglite and a spyderco atr folding knife.I have been doing some training with the flashlight.one thing to remember if you use a blade you also have to take into account the legal consequences even though you may be justified in using a blade police and judges do not like people using them and you might be charged with using a blade even though you are in the right.you might be less likely to be charged if you use the flashlight.I would use mine to augment my strikes using it like you would like you would use brass knuckles instead you would be using a hammer fist instead of punches.with my other hand I would be hitting as well.the same basically if I would to use a pen or a small knife held in the reverse grip.
     
  3. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    The pocket stick, dulo-dulo, yawara/kubotan is a viable tool for both self-defense and as a training aid to knife concepts. As an SD tool, it definately adds to your "punch" so to speak. Whether straight on, cycling hammerfistis like a piston or simply hooking with the top to the temple. As mentioned, it is all a matter of how you are applying it and where that adds to the effectiveness of a basic strike. As far as aiding in locking and controlling, I would be more apt to say that these techniques are follow ups after you tuned the opponent good. Compressing nerves is always a plus too.

    I don't think it disrupts the ability to grab any less than "cranking & shanking" someone with a knife is. Simply grab a hold of the opponent or his clothing and bat away with pure intent. I use a spike tip kubotan, added a ring or two with more keys. Sure, a lil bulky but it provides some versatility making it a somewhat flexible tool.

    Regarding its use for knife training, that is a given since similar principles, manipulation and/or handling apply. It is a discrete way to introduce the knife to newbies.
     
  4. ryangruhn

    ryangruhn New Member

    With the material I teach we use the palm stick as a training tool for other daily objects. The most common replacement is the unopened knife.

    Gruhn
     
  5. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    Pocket Stick

    The mini-mag is a good candidate and if you can ramp up the light with krypton bulb and put a push switch on the butt end you have a pretty good self-defense tool.

    One thing to tell beginners though is that some strikes can be potentially lethal. A strike to the ribs or collar bone is going to do less damage than one to the temple or throat.

    Best,

    Steve Lamde
     
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I like this approach. The point is not to train the specific weapon but rather to train movements that will be useful for a range of (standard and improvised) weapons. For me too, the unopened folder comes first to mind.
     
  7. ryangruhn

    ryangruhn New Member

    I'll be flying this weekend and always have my mini-mag as a light assistant (overnight flights). I think it is one of the most trusted impact weapons in my tool box.

    Gruhn
     
  8. kabaroan

    kabaroan Kabaroan

    Several years ago, I had taken a Kubotan Class from my instructor, Ed Bansuelo. Many of the applications of the Kubotan are easily transferred to the pocket stick or a closed knife like my Benchmade AFCK. Some knives, however, because of their profile when closed make it more difficult to transfer the techniques (not impossible, just difficult) such as the Spyderco Endura.

    Come to think of it, I need a refresher on my Kubotan techniques.
     
  9. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    Pocket Stick

    The Benchmade AFCK makes a great pocket stick when it's unopened. I gave them as gifts to my groomsmen at my wedding. 5/6 were martial artists.

    Other viable candidates (beside the mini-mag mentioned above):

    Two-headed steel wrenches
    Sturdy metal scissors (hook the larger eye ring in the last 3 fingers and butt the other eye ring against your palm; your thumb gets reinforced by the back of one of the blades)

    These are good "ready to hand" weapons because they are so easily accessble.

    Best,

    Steve Lamade
     
  10. Waltyr

    Waltyr Member

    still another.....

    Also, I don't know if it has already been mentiones as far as 'make-shift' palm sticks/pocket sticks/kubutons, but I've recently seen that the "SHARPY" permenant markers have a 'beefed up' version marker thats about 6 or so inches long and about 3/4 to 1 inch thick.
    Personally, one of the advantages about this is that its available almost anywhere and you can take it anywhere, along with the fact that the marker cap has a clip that one can attach to almost any part of your cloth (say if you happen to be wearing a button-up shirt, or pants pocket...etc..) Just a thought.....and who knows, you might actually need to write with it....


    W.v.
     
  11. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Are these actually intended for self-defense, like the so-called "flashlights" that are clearly being marketed as pocket sticks with a wink-wink, nudge-nudge, or are they truly make-shift weapons?
     
  12. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    Let's face it...as FMA players, the principles of the blade can make relatively anything a very viable tool for defense. An inch on each side from a pen, sharpee, mini-maglite to the kubotan is all you need to thrust, butt, strike, shear, scarpe, hook, impinge nerves etc.
     
  13. grimfang

    grimfang Junior Member

    A used spark plug is perfectly legal to keep in your pocket. Not the sturdiest thing in the world, but its pretty easy to replace if it breaks or gets lost. And its got that little metal fork on the end which could be really nasty if it 'accidently' got straightened out.
     
  14. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    Interesting idea, Waltyr.

    Have you or anyone tried fighting with a Sharpie? (On the mat or off...)

    The caps of those sharpies are very large...they cover over a third of the barrell...and they are desiged to be removed easily. I would wonder if this ease of motion would interfere with a strike.

    Even if one plunged the sharpie square on in to a surface, if the sharpie went cap-first in to the impact, the cap woud definitely give and deflect some of the blow.

    That's just how I see it in my mind though. I don't know how realistic that is in practice. Anyone?


    Carol
     
  15. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I can imagine the cap coming off, leaving only the felt (?) marking surface. Hmmm...I will need to play with one! With the cap gone, is the marking surface soft or still hard beneath a small tip?
     
  16. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    Not much of a concern cause you have the other side to still work with. And, even if the tip is left, you are striking with such intensity it will push right down basically sliding the tip into the tubing part of the marker so your just as good to go.
     
  17. Waltyr

    Waltyr Member

    pocket stick use...cont...

    In all honesty, I haven't attempted to train with or even use the fat version Sharpie marker as of yet. I was at work and I noticed the BIG Sharpie sitting on someones desk. At that moment I picked it up and it felt good in the hand and reminded me of my palm stick that I carry (or dulo-dulo).
    My hope is that maybe this weekend I'll be able to pick up a couple of them and see how they work out. Perhaps maybe bring it to class and see what the instructor thinks about it.
    I can see the problem of the felt portion being pushed back into the marker, though one would most likely keep the cap on if your about to engage in any type of conflict, don't you think??
    Again this is all theory until one actually give this idea a chance. One might find out that a Sharpie wouldn't be the best selection, but perhaps a something similiar in nature. But hey, give it a shot and see what happens.
     
  18. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    If striking is the preferred choice, and executed in rapid cycling motion, chances are the cover could come off. We should not spend too much time posing these minor concerns as the emphasis is to strike, lock, thrust etc. with a viable, hard enough object. If I had a pen I wouldn't give it a second thought that maybe the tip would break. I would only hope it breaks as I sink it in my assailant.
     
  19. SAL

    SAL Junior Member

    Hey Guys
    About two years ago I did a project on the pocket stick. This is the first page of the text, it should help with some more info on the pocket stick.

    Sal

    The Pocket Stick
    Applied to the Empty Hand Techniques of
    Modern Arnis​


    The pocket stick is a short impact weapon that is used by various martial art styles and is made from a variety of materials and comes in different shapes and sizes. It is easy to carry, cheap and easily adaptable from objects available to you during your every day routine
    (pencils, pens, eating utensils etc.).

    The name Pocket Stick is a generic term for this weapon.
    Some of the other names for it are
    Kubotan, Olisi Palad, Dulo Dulo, Pasak and Chizikun-bo

    All of these, regardless of shape or size, have one thing in common.
    They all require the user to hold them in a clenched fist
    in order to retain control of them.
    The one exception is the Okinawan version of the pocket stick called the Chizikun-bo.

    This weapon utilizes a finger loop that slips over the middle finger and allows the user to open his/her hand for grabbing, while still
    retaining control of the weapon.

    The Chizikun-bo was and still is used by Okinawan fisherman to assist them in pulling in their fishing nets. It allows them to hook with the tool as well as still being able to use their fingers for grabbing, without fear of losing the tool. It has tapered ends and fits very well in the hand.

    For these reasons the Chizikun-bo is the best design that allows for hand grabbing and manipulation that are predominate traits of Modern Arnis.

    Used with the techniques of Professor Remy Presas’ Modern Arnis,
    the pocket stick can be a very effective defensive tool
    or a nasty offensive weapon.
    With the pocket stick, defense and offense are the same.
     
  20. kabaroan

    kabaroan Kabaroan

    I recently acquired a pair of titanium chopsticks in purple. I even use them to eat; noodles are bit of a challenge but sticky rice is great! :)
     

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