Pekiti Tirsia and Dekiti Tirsia Sirradas???

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by Waltyr, Jan 31, 2006.

  1. Waltyr

    Waltyr Member


    I'm a bit confused about something that I've seen lately and I was wondering if any of the PT practioners could fill me in.
    I've read a little about the Pekiti Tirsia system and then I came across something else that read 'Dekiti-Tirsia Sirradas'. My question is what is the difference between the two systems and are they related? And if so, were they once a whole system and then split or are they 2 seperate systems that have evolved on there own??

  2. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I'm no expert, but have done some Dekiti Tirsia Siradas. My understanding is that Pekiti Tirsia broke off from the system of the Tortal family. Jerson Tortal has explained that they then altered the name slightly for clarity, and that the D in Dekiti and P in Pekiti are essentially the same thing, pronounced slightly differently. So, Dekiti Tirsia Siradas is the original system, though not exactly its original name.
  3. Waltyr

    Waltyr Member

    ah, I see....

    So essentially they are the same system with a slight name change. Do you know if there any specific defining qualities that makes the Dekiti Tirsia and Pekiti Tirsia different? Method of training or emphasis on stick or blade (knife, pinuti, bolo sword, machette etc..) orientation?
  4. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I have only ever attended a single Pekiti Tirsia seminar, so I do not know enough to comment. I do believe both are blade-oriented.
  5. blindside

    blindside student

    I train under an instructor who is certified in both systems, though he teaches mostly from the Pekiti structure. My understanding and guesstimate is that it is essentially the same (family) system taught through different teaching methodologies. Often in our training he will comment on a technique (say a contrada) and say "Tuhon Gaje likes it this way" and "Tuhon (Nene) Tortal likes to do this."
  6. Waltyr

    Waltyr Member

    PT and DT sirradas...

    I see, thanks blindside. That cleared if up for me. I saw both name designations and at first thought it was spelling error, and then when I saw more material in relation to the DT sirradas, I began to quesiton it. Thanks alot

  7. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I like the Dekiti Tirsia Siradas material, and expect to have a chance to train with Mr. Tortal again this summer when he visits Terre Haute. The blade focus is a change from the stick focus I bring from Modern Arnis.
  8. Kalisong

    Kalisong New Member

    They share the same roots from Conrado Tortal but both have very different interpretations of their art. Just watch them move and you will see a big difference. PTK has evolved from it's original form based on Grandtuhon Leo Gaje's connection with the Military and Law Enforcement agencies worldwide. Not just as a seminar presenter but as the offfical program for these agencies.
  9. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    From my limited experience, the DTS people tend to focus more on stepping off to the side and turning 90 degrees--a very large step--whereas the PT people don't make as large a movement.
  10. Kalisong

    Kalisong New Member

    PTK's reasoning : It has a lot to do with mobility and keeping your feet underneath you, you can move faster and recover if your legs are not as spread out from underneath you, GM Nene Tortal takes on a more grounded stance and is alot stiffer compared to Tuhon Leo Gaje. And if the instructor's are copied by their students then this may be the reason why DTS and PTK move differently?
  11. Kalisong

    Kalisong New Member

    Regarding the 90 degree stepping, PTK trains the ranges in degree. 45 -90-180 . it shows that both have similar roots yet their movements and interpretations are different.
  12. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    Couldn't help digging up this old thread.

    Arnisador, do you see DTS and PTK in a different light after your most recent seminar with Mr. Tortal? :)
  13. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Unfortunately, my Pekiti-Tirsia experience remains much too limited to say much about the comparsion! I do now know that both systems frequently use the knife in reverse grip with the blade held back against the arm, which is less common in other systems. I believe that PT emphasizes that primarily for smaller blades while DTS seems to do it for most knives.

    I do like the DTS, which has a heavy sword-focus. As a stick person, it's an interesting change.
  14. Dekiti-Tirsia is a creation of Nene Tortal and GReg Alland


    In the Tortal family there is no Dekiti-Tirsia. this is the creation of Nene Tortal and GReg Alland because they want to mislead people that they are pekiti-tirsia so that they can sell promotions and ranks for money.All what has been taught and presented by Nene Tortal is a copy cut of what he manufactured as Dekiti-tirsia.only in the late 90's that this Dekiti-Tirsia came out after I kick them out from the Pekiti-Tirsia.If he is the true Tortal system look at him when he move and do his technique that is not the Tortal system. he cannot even expound what is the true system. Everything in his web site is a copy cut and stolen materials with the coaching of Greg Alland.

    So don't confuse because the truth there is no Dekiti-Tirsia in the Tortal FAmily. Rommel Tortal son of Nene Tortal's brother is in Pekiti-Tirsia why he didn't join Nene because Nene Tortal is the brother of his brother. Why he is in the Pekiti-Tirsia , he is my second in command teaching the Philippine Marine Corps.There is no Dekiti-Tirsia that is final.
  15. Attend my seminars PTK

    For you to be delighted about knife you must attend in one of my seminars so that you can understand the real knife fighting and the training system.
    Gt Gaje
  16. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I understand! I know there is some question regarding Mr. Alland's dealings.

    I hope to do so some time when you are in Indianapolis!
  17. No Shared Roots between PTK and DTS

    There is no shared roots on Dekiti-Tirsia. There is no DTS in the Pekiti-Tirsia; If Nene Tortal has this Dekti-Tirsia why he joined me and he represented in the Book of Edgar Sulite , Master of Arnis book as Pekiti-
    Tirsia. If he has that Dekiti-Tirsia he should be ahead of me in New York City.

    Don't believe on this Dekiti-Tirsia .This is a big lie.

    Nene Tortal's concience tells him that he is telling. His partner is GReg Alland.

    What does Nene Tortal knows about FMA. His background is Supreme martial Arts which is Karate based . Converting to Filipino with all the setting down blocking and disarming. What he got from Pekiti-tirsia like knife techniques is not his own. He has no knowledge about knife.

    Lots of lies to fool people which is very bad to the filipino culture.
  18. kali808

    kali808 New Member

    Thanks for the info Tuhon. It is better to hear the truth from the main man, rather than blog rumors that leads to assumptions. Good to have your knowledge on fmatalk. See you in San Jose!
  19. Pekiti-Tirsia is not the Same with Dekiti-Tirsia

    You cannot compare Pekiti-Tirsia with Dekiti-tirsia and you say the same. this Dekiti-tirsia is organized only by Nene Tortal and Greg Alland and it has not structure and everything in there is purely manufacutured and stolen. How can be the same. if you have PTK in your training you can understand the difference. don't comparison if you have not experience the Pekiti-Tirsia
  20. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I thought they had split?

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