Panantukan

Discussion in 'JKD-Kali' started by Doc, Nov 22, 2006.

  1. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith New Member

    I've seen the Ron Balicki DVD's and they are excellent. They cover just about everything. Money well spent in my humble opinion.

    Ray Smith
     
  2. Epa

    Epa Member

    I haven't seen the DVDs so I can't comment on them, but one of my training partners trained with Ron Balicki and he said that Mr. Balicki was a good instructor.

    With regard to Panantukan, I think that the basic striking tools (boxing punches, elbows, knees, head butts) from panantukan are the most important skills. At different points in my training I've tried to put the different pieces of the Panantukan curriculum that I've learned into my sparring. The basic striking tools usually work the most efficiently.

    More complex material like limb destructions and trapping can be used, but is not always worth the effort. In trying to set up this material you could just be hitting the person with basic attacks. I think a lot of people focus too much on this material and forget about just hitting the other person, at least I did.

    The best thing that I got out of the Panantukan curriculum was the idea of off balancing and then hitting. If you can hit someone and then immediately shove them off balance, it makes it a lot easier to hit them again. This is a skill that Panantukan focuses on a lot and I think is worth developing. Look into the foot sweeps and checking the upper body to take someone's balance.
     
  3. darkwolfe

    darkwolfe New Member

    Great points Epa. That seems like the most logical way to implement it. I also have just seen the KaliTudo video from the Dog Brothers and they emphasized standard boxing with Kali footwork. They gave examples of the boxer, Prince Naseem, as someone who uses similar footwork (though probably not Kali). Thanks again.
     
  4. Rizaldy

    Rizaldy New Member

    Another Great Video Set

    Another great video set is the Maphilindo Silat Tapes by Terry Gibson. It's a rare 6 tape set. Goes over alot of the stuff that the Rick Faye dvds cover.
     
  5. JohnK

    JohnK New Member

    You know, I still have that series on VHS though I've not seen them in years. I don't even know if the quality has degraded to the point of unwatchability (its fun to make up words, no?)

    Anyway, I saw this thread and wanted to chime in. It hits a mark within me and I'll make this brief for now...

    I used to practice kali-silat. Dropped much of it about 10-11 years ago when MMA was new and I started working harder on that and grappling etc.

    10-11 years later I have a decent boxing, clinch and ground game. Like guro Crafty calls, "Generic MMA".

    So what happens? I start working Panantukan into the mix and my partners/students have no idea what's going on or how to approach it.

    Basically, I had lost faith in the FMA for a bit. Years later I realize how stupid I was and that it wasn't the art so much as the idiot practicing it.

    I will say however that it would benefit everyone to develop a core base in the fundamentals of boxing and wrestling/grappling. At least for me, it's because of that base and delivery system that I'm able to make a lot of this stuff work in an MMA sparring environment.

    Anyway (I said I would make this brief). I'm curious to hear everyone else's point of view.

    Thanks!

    John
     
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Everyone needs a jab and a cross, and everyone needs a takedown from the front and a defense against the same.

    My time in BJJ has been very good for me even though I'm not at all good at it. I'm still heads-and-shoulders above those with no training in it.
     
  7. Joe Hubbard

    Joe Hubbard New Member

  8. deetee

    deetee New Member

    Long time......

    Hey Joe,

    Long time no see mate. How are you these days? I hope you're keeping well. I have had the full set of Terry Gibson videos from way back when I was considering training under him. I would invite you over to have a look and catch up but I'm living in Melbourne now. We moved out here last October. The offer still stands..........

    Take care mate,

    Doug
     
  9. Doc

    Doc New Member

    Greetings all!

    Just wanted to pop in and say "hi!" I've been out of the loop for awhile doing other things and am finally getting back to my Panantukan. Just to contribute to further discussion.....I recently purchased "Introduction to Madjapahit Silat" by Suzanne Luna Spezzano. You can get it here:

    http://inosanto.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=121&osCsid=01a84f93a68086bb7bfbc1f6b52603d4

    While its not Panatukan, it is Maphilindo Silat. If Panantukan is the striking phase of Maphilindo (like Pukulan in the Indonesian arts), then this DVD set represents the ground-fighting phase of Maphilindo Silat. This is not an area I have studied, but it appears to me that most of the material on this set is Harimau Silat, possibly via Herman Suwanda's Mande Muda. Regardless, this set of DVDs is very well done. The production quality is good, the instructional quality is good, the background setting is very picturesque, and Guro Spezzano is easy on the eyes! :) I recommend it if you are interested in Silat ground-fighting, or if you are fleshing out your skills to expand your Panantukan base into more of a Maphilindo Silat approach. As an aside....I just reviewed my copies of Guro Rick Tucci's vids for Espy. These videos represent the sweeping/throwing aspect of Maphilindo Silat. So combine either Guro Faye's or Guro Balicki's Panantukan vids with Tucci and Spezzanno and you've got a pretty good package.

    Keith
     
  10. el maldito de cebu

    el maldito de cebu New Member

    it was a great vid. nice one but I respect different aspect of martial arts it becomes deadly depending on the one using it.
     
  11. Rizaldy

    Rizaldy New Member

    Actually the Terry Gibson Tapes are extremely rare and hard to find. I got mine a couple years back from someone I found on the internet selling his collection of videos.
     
  12. jeff5

    jeff5 New Member

    I have Ron's DVDs and I think they are excellent. Rick Tucci's on Silat (he includes a ton of Panantukan), are great as well. I'll have to check out Rick Faye's.
     
  13. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    I have seen the first DVD of rick Faye, as well as the one by Harley Elmore. Both are good, although different.
    Balicki's presentation is, in my view, somewhat of a classroom adapted, i.e. goes over the material in lesson bits and covering various areas along the way, but gets back to those areas with new stuff as the student advances.
    Faye's presentation is seminar-like, and his attention to detail in regards of the basic techniques is more pronounced than in Balicki's or Elmore's case. Also, I'd say that the progression featured is more gradual.
    Elmore's presentation is...well...book-like, or lecture-like. It means he really separated different subjects and then work on them, which is great if you use his video as a lexicon or dictionary, and also it is maybe easier to see how things branch out from the same concept.

    Anyway, while I have the entire set of Ron Balicki, I only have first volumes of Rick Faye and Harley Elmore, so I cannot really be the judge of who offers most information, but I'd say that only with Ron you'll find as much ground fighting stuff... Matter of fact, I believe there is a lot of stuff on his DVDs that are not panantukan, strictly speaking, but come from his Maphilindo material.

    Hope this helps.
     
  14. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Guro Dan has a great Panatukan presentation in his latest set of the Filipino Martial arts dvds he made.. I was fortunate to get it and viewed it several times.. You can also get Steve Grody's flow of filipino empty hands and get a good idea of how he teaches the panatukan aspects of the FMA..
     
  15. Doc

    Doc New Member

    Stick Boxing

    Hi Guys!

    Maybe another topic to generate discussion? My first love and my focus is Panantukan. The main weapon that I train is the knife. After all, Panantukan is considered "blade awareness" boxing! But I don't neglect stick work either. However, I don't take it to nearly the depth and devote as much time to it as in the "classical" FMA systems. The stick work I do is somewhat similar to Serrada. I consider it "stick boxing." I learned this from Ted Lucaylucay at one of his seminars many years ago. He also put out an instructional video on the topic. Essentially I use a shorter stick at closer range than most. Hence the similarity to Serrada. I use "boxing" biomechanics and look to my Panantukan for inspiration on application rather than the other way around. It works good for me and reinforces my Panantukan training.

    Keith
     
  16. jeff5

    jeff5 New Member

    I think the solution is to just get all those videos! I'm a martial arts junkie so I probably will =)). Doc that sounds like a very cool system!
     
  17. dboeren

    dboeren New Member

    Fascinating stuff, I love it. I've only been studying Kali for less than two months now but it's mostly been stick and knife emphasis. We did have some empty handed applications which sounds like it may have been Panantukan but the instructor didn't use any particular term for it. Primarily it was centered on different variations of how to parry a jab or cross while using the other hand to attack the limb.

    Maybe later once I've more experienced I'll pick on one of the video series mentioned. Right now I've got my hands full getting the basics down :)
     
  18. el maldito de cebu

    el maldito de cebu New Member

    kali is very intreesting specially that you already experience the diferent bladed weapons and you already knew there uses in make you addicted.
     
  19. Doc

    Doc New Member

    Panantukan Dummy

    Hey Guys!

    How about another point? If you've learned Panatukan in the context of a Kali/JKD academy, then you've likely been exposed to the use of a training dummy. My background prior to Panantukan was Wing Chun Gung Fu. So I've done a lot of dummy training. Naturally, I then adapted a lot of my Panantukan to applications on the dummy. I view the wooden dummy like a "sophisticated heavy bag." You can train lots of lines and angles and applications. And the big benefit....the dummy is a training partner that is always around, never gets tired, and never complains!

    The problem with the typical dummy is that you can't really go even close to "full power" on it and the wall mount limits your movement and where you can actually place the dummy. So I when I was recently shopping for a new dummy I looked for something that I thought was more appropriate for Panantukan than the usual Wing Chun or JKD hardwood dummy. I found it here:

    http://www.thewarrior.com/warriors/phase1.htm

    This dummy is free-standing, which allows you to move around and behind it to practice the wider variety of angles used in Panantukan as compared to Wing Chun. That also means you can put it where you want it and don't have to mount it to a wall. You can push it off into an out of the way corner when you aren't using it and then roll it out into an open area when you are ready to go. The trunk is also padded, which allows you to use the "boxing" punches from Panantukan with more realism as well as throwing in knees and elbows without injury. Put on a pair of MMA gloves while you train on this dummy and you can really crank it up! Wearing the gloves also allows you to practice the various gunting destructions on the arms of the dummy. I leave the leg off of my dummy, because it just seems to get in the way when doing Panantukan. Does anyone else train their Panantukan skills on a wooden dummy?

    Keith
     
  20. yomitche

    yomitche New Member

    hey Doc, who'd you train Wing Chun with? I grew up in Las Cruces and trained with guys there. What about you?

    Cost and placement of a dummy makes it hard to have one. I haven't figured out how to use it for other than Wing Chun yet. Congratulations on adapting!
     

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