Palis-Palis

Discussion in 'Modern Arnis' started by Epa, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. Epa

    Epa Member

    I've heard that the Palis-Palis techniques that Professor Presas taught were originally taken from his family's Espada Y Daga style, but most of the palis techniques I've seen were entries into stick grappling. Has anyone been taught the blade oriented palis-palis or did Professor just not teach it? If anyone has done it, what are the drills like?

    Thanks,
    Eric
     
  2. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman FMA Talk Founder Supporting Member

    The blade version is very limited. Pass, cut, thrust. We would use the sword and dagger to work on passing and live hand positions. Since it would work on KILL SHOTS, not much was done with it. Remy kept it simple and direct. With the stick is where he got fancy.
     
  3. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Yes, palis-palis espada y daga was mostly just one specific drill. Use the sword and knife pass the incoming forehand strike to the other side of the body, then two stabs are done in succession; then similarly for the backhand strike.

    But yes, palis also describes an entry from, say, solo baston. It's still "passing" but more followups were done from it.
     
  4. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    This was done and taught at the 1987 Michigan Camp as counters to 1 through 12 for Palis - Palis.

    He also would allow you to go into innovations after the initial pass cut and thrust.
     
  5. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

    Pali Palis is actually a complete art, that is all to commonly confused as techniques same with Crossada, which is basically Crossada DeMano. Palis Palis is very indonesian looking it is a soft redirecting art that has 6 basic entries, its empy hand techniques involve a lot of double handed striking and lots of conrner talking and neck cranking. Its bladed venue is very subtle with lots of redirecting off of its 6 basic enties most of the intial attacks are driven into the ground again with you primary intent to take your opponents corner, the techniques Professor learned from his grand father were Primarily from Pali Palis y Daga. Palis Palis its self is very soft simular in a lot of ways to the Internal arts, everything is about redirecting. Its to bad that most of Palis Palis and Crossada DeMano is lost, I have been studing hours of tapes over the last cpl of years to try and refresh my memory but I have only retained about 60 TO 70% of Crossada DeMano and even less of Palis Palis. I have looked everywhere but these too arts are pretty much done.


    Rocky
     
  6. Mono

    Mono Member

    No offense meant but would it not have been better to go and Study with some of the Professors early and or high Ranking Students to get such Information?

    I think most of the Information found on Tapes (especially on MA Tapes) is mainly more of a "Basic" Nature...

    Personally I see and have learned Palis-Palis in two "variations" or interpretations: Both are using the Principal "Go with the Force" in a certain way...
    1. Go with the Force meaning Passing, following the Incomming Strike etc.
    2. Meaning "flowing" with the force - independant of the Type of Block/Defense used (example: Defending Angle 1 with an Inside Sweep and using the force of the Impact to flow into your next counteringtechnique...)

    Yours,
    Mono
     
  7. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman FMA Talk Founder Supporting Member

    For those who don't know Rocky, you might find it interesting to know that Remy would live with Rocky's family for months at a time. Also seeing that Rocky was in Remy's Palis - Palis video, I would assume that the video footage that Rocky is refering to is private footage that Rocky took of Remy himself.
     
  8. Mono

    Mono Member

    I am really sorry for the Missunderstanding and thanks for the Explanation!
    (I ve already been told by Dieter Knüttel as well...:idea: )

    Yours,
    Mono
     
  9. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    It's hard to tell from just usernames, unfortunately!
     
  10. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

    No Biggie, I am pretty much the Bastard Child of MA anyways so no offense taken.

    I do know that in all our training together Professor almost always reverted to Crossada DeMano for his empty hand, I think becuase it is one of the more forcefull of the FMA's that I have encountered, and some people don't relize it but Professor was a big built guy compared to most Filipinos so i think the powerfull entries and the cross over forearm hacking attacks suited his personality. Which I must admit that I too like which is why I incorporate so much of it into Cuentada DeMano. I love the fluid yet powerful blocking and the close quarters. Professor use to say that in stick fighting there is Close Quarters, then there is Balintawak, and that is the way I feel about Crossada Demano if you like Penjak Silat then you would probablly love crossada. Sorry to go a stray I know this post is suppose to be about Palis Palis!!


    Rocky
     
  11. Mono

    Mono Member

    Puh, I am glad to hear that :)

    I dont think I quite understand that sentence - do you mean by that, that Remy would use/preferr Balintawak when using a Stick in close quarters?

    Yours,
    Mono
     
  12. Datu Dieter

    Datu Dieter Junior Member

    Rocky, you might correct me, but I would think, that Remy would use Balintawak to fight and Modern Arnis to teach.
    He did not want to teach a "duelling style of stickfighting", which Balintawak is, but he wanted to teach selfdefense which he did with Modern Arnis.

    Regards


    Dieter
     
  13. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

    You hit it right square on the head Datu Dieter. This is one of the things that grates on my nerves, Professor wanted Modern Arnis to be the Filipino art of SELF DEFENSE and it is it is a fantastic self defense art, Professor could teach more self defense in a day then most FMA'ers could teach in a month. But have no doubt in your mind that if it was a matter of fighting another trained stick fighter, Professor would instantly revert back to his Balintawak, in fact for those that could push him hard enough when sparring you would see his Balintawak slipping through, especially his block and lock from Moncol.


    Rocky
     
  14. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

    If he wee fighting another Stick fighter I have no doubt that he would close quickly and use his Balintawak training. That was something else Professor was phenominal at......CLOSING......ask Tim Hartman about that, even in his elder years the man could close the gap on you as fast or faster then anyone I have had the plesure of training.

    But what I was saying was I guess you would call a Clique' (sp) like saying there are big guys, then there is Refridgerator Perry, or there are guys that can really eat...and then there is Tim Hartman ;-) Well in stick fighting there are close quarters arts then there is Balintawak, in other words what most people think as close quarters Balintawak still considers it Medio range. In Baintawak if you can't hump your opponents leg, while hitting him with a stick then you are not close enough, ok I may be exagerating a tad bit......of course I am gifted ....so..

    Rocky
     
  15. Mono

    Mono Member

  16. Epa

    Epa Member

    Rocky,

    Thanks for all the history because it's something that I didn't get to see when I trained with Professor. You mentioned that Professor Presas would revert to Balintawak for stick dueling and the Crossada style for his emtpy hands because of the powerful entries. What about with sword or sword and dagger? It seems that most of the material dealing with edged weapons goes back to the arts he learned from his grandfather. So would he use styles like Palis-Palis or Crossada when dealing with edged weapons?


    Eric
     
  17. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

    As far as the Professor was concerned with Sword and Dagger he semed to like a blend of the Crossad and Palis Palis, he worked extensively with my wife years ago, he stayed at my house for about 3 months and everyday he worked with Debby on Espada Y daga its a nice feed and counter system with some nice foot work, she is probabbly better at it then me, its just not my thing, it is however much closer then most systems for Sword and dagger stuff, except maybe Sarrada. Its also very liniar with a lot of weight transfering and again its entry always allows for you to take your opponents corner.


    Rocky
     

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