Old dogs?

Discussion in 'Dog Brothers Martial Arts' started by geezer, Jan 26, 2009.

  1. geezer

    geezer Member

    I've watched a few old DBMA videos, and Eric and Marc looked damned strong in those days. Now that they are a bit more mature, do they still participate in full-on bouts at their Gatherings? How many old dogs are there who can still really mix it up and manage to walk away at the end of the day. And how many crippled-up old dogs are there? Being a bit older myself, I'd like to know.
  2. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    My instructor is an original Dog Brother and can still rain hell on people half his age...
  3. Though I don't fight as much as in the "old" days I am still active in full contact stick fighting.I get a bit nervous now when I see how good everyone has gotten.

    Like any old guy I am proud of how my offspring are doing and we have instituted a "gathering like" assembly at my school every couple of months to stimulate the new generations.
  4. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    Sled Dog put on a most impressive display at our 20th Anniversary 3 day Gathering in April 2008!

    Speaking for myself, I fought until I was 48 (I'm 56 now, Sled Dog is something similar). Though there is no doubt in my mind I am still capable of fighting, I've taken the injuries that I am willing to take and prefer to keep what I have left for any real world adventures that may arise.

    I do continues with vigorous sparring with students as part of helping them get ready.
  5. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    That seems like a smart attitude. IT's much longer healing at our age and one wants to make it to old age!
  6. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    My wife likes country music and there is a song around at the moment that goes something like this:

    "I aint as good as I once was,
    but I'm as good once
    as I ever was."

    Here's a mini "Rambling Rumination" from one of our newsletters:

    [FONT=Trebuchet MS,Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif]Crafty's Corner

    Forever Young
    by Crafty Dog

    At the core of the attraction that the FMA hold for me is that they produce men who "walk as warriors for all their days".

    Of all the stories of Guro Inosanto, in one of the ones that has touched me the most, he tells of watching old manongs hobble out to demonstrate their art. Amongst his many skills Guro I. is an extraordinary mimic (of accents as well as movement BTW) and as he mimics their movement one can see the effects of time. But then!-- they pick up their sticks and begin to move and it is as though they were young again: the movement live, dynamic and full of grace. And then they finish and become old men again, and hobble off.

    The thought I apply to myself for my personal mission (and that of DBMA) of "walking as a warrior for all my days" is to train so that there is a place in myself that is forever young-- a place that I can access should I ever need to. If I remember my readings in NLP correctly, this may be called an anchor. In FMA perhaps this may be considered an anting-anting.

    Regardless the name, it is the place that is forever young. If one has done little in youth, it seems reasonable to me to think that it will be of less value than if one has done more-- without having done "too much".. Perhaps some of the training that is derided by some today may be better seen as what those who "did more" in their youth use to keep the rust off their skills? Of course this interpretation implies that these methods may not suffice in the absence of seasoning experiences.

    Just a rambling rumination.
  7. krugman

    krugman New Member

    good points..

    I'm 52 ,have been practising Illustrisimo for about a year and a half.Love it.Feel better than I have in many years.Its inspiring to hear of martial artists like yourself.Reading your post and the story of the old masters reminded me of my Illustrisimo instructor telling me about Tatang,who he refers to with respect as "the old man".He would walk up to his opponent(in his later years) with a hesitant shuffle,but when he had a stick in his hand it (and his feet) would whirl about with surprising speed and force.
    Big fan of the DB and Crafty Dog.
  8. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    Age does not matter if the individual is skilled enough and well conditioned... I mean look at Helio Gracie... He was in top shape at 95 and from what I read on the internet, he still could school some of the younger students...
  9. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    One of the advantages of being an old dog is that it is easier for the ego to ask someone to go easier on you LOL.

    Friday afternoons I try to get over to the open mat time at Rigan Machado's school. There is a fellow brown belt under Royce Grace there (19 years younger though!) who has a strong background in boxing and was at Rorion and Royce's place during the early days of the "Gracie challenge" and in the context got a lot of good practical adrenal state experience.

    I like his Vale Tudo game-- there are several small, distinctive and important things that he does that most people don't (I credit this to Royce coming up old school vale tudo and the far less restrictive rules of the early UFC e.g. groin strikes, head butts, heel kicks to the kidney, etc) which make him a good training partner for me. I may be able to easily blow through some thirty something blue belt with my Running Dog game, but will it work on him?

    So we put on some MMA gloves and play. Yesterday he wore boxing gloves because I have been exploring the Dracula game of our "Kali Tudo" (tm) in guard. The Dracula game, seen briefly in the context of standing striking range in KT-1, has evolved quite a bit since then and includes quite a bit of punch destructions. It worked better last week than this though LOL, and so I left the session with a better understanding of where it works, where it doesn't, what I need to do to keep it where it works, and when to move on to something else.

    In the context of this thread, the larger point is to continue in active play. The nice sweat of rolling for an hour plus is my favorite form of cardio. However, n the context of the DBMA statement of mission "To walk as a warrior for all your days" it is important to remember that real world situations typically entail someone doing what my friend Chris Gizzi calls "going nitrous" and it is really important to know where one is at right now and not years ago in one's prime.

    For me the way I do this is to make sure that every week I work my 100 yard dash and my quarter mile sprint. The neighborhood HS's football field and track is perfect for this.

    Putting the two cardio trainings together (long and slow and nitrous) seems to work for me. Now, to an oberver my quarter mile sprint might look like a jog, but that's a separate point. The point is I need to now where I am at-- period-- so that I can effectively define range according to my criteria. Like the old Leonard Skynyrd (or was it the Allman Brothers?) song goes "Give me three steps mister towards the door" I need to know how many steps towards the door I need. It might be more than three. LOL. I need to know if I am trying to capture someone, or evade someone, what pace I am capable of.

    As we say in DBMA "If you ain't the lead sled dog the view is all the same. No one beats everyone every time. Everyone looks at someone else's butt some time. So be not humble, and be not proud. Respect others as you respect yourself" (c)

    The Adventure continues!
  10. yomitche

    yomitche New Member

    Well put, Crafty. Thanks!
  11. geezer

    geezer Member

    As I was walking my own dog the other day, it occurred to me that, from a dog's perspective, the second dog has the best view!
  12. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    Hell, I like when guro Crafty elaborates on his thoughts! Every time, I grow to be more and more of your fan.
  13. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Getting a bit long in the tooth as well....sparring full contact isn't a problem...can do it if needed....healing is a different story. It seems now the nagging little crap takes a bit longer to heal. I think getting older also means your supposed to cheat more...:) (now if I could only get my sparring partners to turn their backs more)that's never been a problem. Also, the older I get the more I prefer my pistols and or shot gun, just makes self preservation that much simpler.
  14. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    I'm like PG Mike, I am getting long in the tooth also.. But I can still swing a stick or jack a round into the chamber when needed.. If it gets to the point where I can't chamber a round or swing a stick, I'll revert back to my training in the Native American art that I learned as a youngster.. I'll drive my Pontiac over your @ss to survive if I need to, plus I am part cherokee and have trained in apache knife, so either way, I can practice either art if the situation dictates
  15. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    It brings to mind the example of Joe Lewis, who runs his younger and stronger training partners through some intense cardio exercises, as a coach, thus gassing them somewhat, before calling them into the ring for sparring.
  16. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    LOL...smart old bastardo eh?
  17. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    Tangentially, this brings up the point about different fighting structures requiring different levels of fitness.

    For this conversation please Put aside the controversial issues attendant with his name-- some of you may remember GM Myung Gyi of Bando. I had always found him to be an unusually astute analyst of real fighting and so I asked him to assess my fighting game. At the time I was in peak fighting form and deep into my double stick game.

    "Open field. Requires very good fitness. Requires good footwork. Requires evolved skill sets."

    For the purpose of the conversation here, seguing off the point about Joe Lewis fighting/sparring people when they were tired-- amongst the things that GM Gyi's words triggered for me was the point about my fighting style requiring fitness.

    In real world situations, we may already be winded. For example, we may have tried running, but weren't fast enough for the distance involved. Do we have a fight game for when we are winded, for when we are not in as good shape as the person(s) whom we are fighting?

    I have done my best to think about this. This material is part of DBMA.
  18. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    Just ran across this , , ,


    I'm 56.

    My philosophy is this:

    There is a place within me which is forever young. I can go there whenever I want. The difference between age and youth is how frequently I can go there and how long I can stay there when I do.

    Allow me to share with you a Dog Brothers parable: A couple wants to make a sex movie to remember themselves by for when they are older. The director cautions the husband about the rarity of being able to perform in front of a camera crew. The husband says not to worry, but on the day of the shoot, lo and behold, he cannot perform. The director starts giving him theI-told-you-so routine and he interrupts to say "I can't understand it! We practiced three times last night and twice this morning!"

    So I train not for volume of work, but quality of peak expression. When its time to say "Lets roll!" I will touch the place within me that is forever young.

    I figure my passion for the mission will take care of the rest.

    The Adventure continues!
    Crafty Dog
  19. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Nice post Mark! This is a really good way to look at it! [​IMG]
  20. bluesbassist

    bluesbassist New Member

    I remember some great advise I got from Marc Scott when I was training in Floro Fighting Systems with him.

    At the time I was in very good condition, proper weight, excellent cardio, etc. Early on in my training with him I asked, "Marc, what should I work on between lessons?"

    His answer, "Cardio."

    At the time I was disappointed with this answer. As time goes on I realize that in order to, as Guro Crafty says "walk as a warrior for the rest of your days" all the techniques in the world don't matter if you can't bring it when you need it for as long as you need to bring it. So strength and conditioning are now a very high priority in my training agenda.

    Mike Melone

    "One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." -Thomas Jefferson

    “Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.” -James Madison
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2009

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