Ok , so now I am totally confused

Discussion in 'General' started by kuntawguro, Jun 12, 2009.

  1. kuntawguro

    kuntawguro -== Banned ==-

    However, I REALLY scratch my head at the people who insist on adopting Japanese forms & dress for Filipino arts. I think it was Arnisador who said that the trouble was that Jigoror Kano's system of identification for Judo had been set as the standard for all other martial arts. I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. FMA has it's own standard of native attire, as well as rank and title. The Filipino bow is unique. Why not make it for the rest of the art as well?

    I used to wear a vest during competition, but after being told I lost points because I was not in a proper uniform I capitulated and went back to a Gi. Besides, I have put on weight and the vest makes me look fat- he he.
     
  2. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Hey Buzz,

    I remember the vest and it always looked sharp! [​IMG]
     
  3. tim_stl

    tim_stl Junior Member

    i don't get offended by internet forum posts from people i don't even know. sorry to disappoint.

    you have a strange way of soliciting discussion. good luck with it.



    tim
     
  4. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    All we are saying is give peace a chance!...Koom Ba Yah My Lord..Koom Ba Yah....or whatever other hippy lyric soothes these savage beasts...LOL....it's an internet forum..LOL..to each their own.
     
  5. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Brit with a stick

    I just got back from teaching a course, where one of the attendee's who is new to Martial Arts said to me. Hi Sensei so what Dan grade are you then?

    One of my guys turned so pale as I looked across and was in a panic thinking I may explode hahaha! I turned as said to him. Sorry who's Dan? Never met him.

    You have to make allowances for newbee's but it does get me a little irked when some people use the Japanese terms and claim to be instructors, it just goes to prove that they know very little about FMA and the Philippines.

    And to me Guru has always been a term used for a holy man and not something in the FMA, yes it is true some people may do a combination of Philippine and Malay arts, I have done that for many years but I dont see any reason what they should confuse the two terms. But hey that's me.

    Best regards

    Pat

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I have some sympathy for people who "give in" to the ubiquity of the Judo-based ranking system. I've seen signs for Chinese Karate, Korean Karate, Filipino Karate,...the term "Karate" is almost generic now, and in English seems to apply to any art with striking. I've heard variants of this conversation many times:

    A: "I study Karate!"
    B: "Wow! What style?"
    A: "Tae Kwon Do!"

    What can you do? The language changes.
     
  7. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    Hi Pat,

    Better inform the instructors of Silat, Bun, Buno and Kuntaw. Not all of then are holy man I don't think. Of course after reading a few history books, Bangsamora isn't really part of the Philippines either. Wonder if that motion will ever make it to the floor of the UN?

    Plus again, the traditional rank in Hilligaynon izzzzzz Guru. Last time I looked, Panay and Negros were still on the Atlas and Rand-McNally polictical maps of the Philippines.

    Besides, in Kalarippayattu, not all of the Guru ranked instructors are holy men either. My Harimau Malayu instructor beack in college, Guru Tony Teo from Sarawak wasn't a holy man either.

    Sorry Mike, I am trying my best to stay away from your mule man.... : )
     
  8. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member


    Typically a Kalaripayattu instructor prefers to be called gurrukal. At least that is how they liked to be addressed when I was in India training. [​IMG]
     
  9. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    I am a Holy man...I say Holy shite everytime I see a big old chicken fried steak or a nice set of boobies.....Holy shite look at those gazongas...lol
     
  10. MichaelJB

    MichaelJB New Member

    "And to me Guru has always been a term used for a holy man and not something in the FMA"

    My instructor game me the title "Guru" and I'm FAR from being holy and I don't (at least not directly) do Indonesian/Malay/Indian arts, just FMA. However, he's Ilokano and that's their word for "teacher" . From his point of view, the word "Guro" is Tagalog.
     
  11. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    I'm just curious.. when was the first time you hear/read an FMA teacher being addressed as guro.
    I've seen quite a few old masters in Luneta being addressed as maestro or master but not guro. Even now, I only hear guro from one group who was karate, then sikaran, then arnis, then jujitsu, then kali, then combatives.. and they are not even tagalog but ilonggo.
    Maybe more groups are using it now when they issue certs and ranks but its still doesn't sound quite right when spoken or heard.
     
  12. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Brit with a stick

    I agree, I know plently of Silat guys who use the term Guru, but I have always known it to be Guro in the FMA and Guru to me has always been associated with a holy man and of course with Silat practioners from Indonesia and Malaysia but as I tend to spend most of my time in FMA I favour the term Guro.

    I can understand that if your dominant art is Silat why you would use the term Guru, but if it is Arnis / Kali / Eskrima I have always been led to beleive it to be Guro and for those who claim that their dominant art is FMA and not Silat why would they use the term Guru???

    Mind you I have also met people who claim to be teaching FMA but hold the title Sifu and Sensei?? Now that to me is really a contradiction in terms. Guro, yes, Guru, why not. But Sifu and especially Sensei tells me they do not really understand the culture and history behind the art they claim to teach.

    I had one guy tell me he was a Grand Tuhon Sifu, Sijo or what ever the hell it was blah de blah de blah and I should respect him for it.. Did'nt even know the guy but hey I am a grand imperial wizard hahaha!

    And after all it is only a title and at the end of the day it means very little in the greater scheme of things. Your ability is in your hands and not in the fancy titles bestowed upon you. That is why when I get new students who ask me what I should be called in class I tell them, well my mother gave me the name Pat and I think if it was good enough for her to use then it is good enough for you too.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  13. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    There are so many dialects in the Phil.--it's got great linguistic diversity! I don't find this hard to believe at all.

    Remy Presas used Guro and he was promoting arnis through the high schools and at colleges...
     
  14. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Perhaps we should all switch over to the Poo-bah titles.

    1. New Poo-bah

    2. Seasoned Poo-bah

    3. Skilled Poo-bah

    4. Master Poo-bah

    5. Grand Poo-bah

    6. Great Grand Poo-bah

    etc.

    etc.

    Now we would have to come up with a cool hat for everyone to sport...hmmm, a viking helmet with crazy horns...or a beer mug helmet may do just fine.
     
  15. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Well,
    Since the title thread came up again, I figured I would add my 2 pesos to the conversation.. Since Master Reston was an established Combat Judo Karate/Kempo instructor who trained with some of the instructors in Japan and promoted to 8th dan in Goju Ryu by Gogen Yamaguchi, I trained in this system and was promoted to the level of 5th dan.. He was also an instructor in sinko tiros and balintawak eskrima where I was promoted to instructor level in these systems, we were called instructors.

    In the Kuntao system I trained in while living in taiwan and was promoted to 5 level instructor in this system by my instructor who lived in Florida, I am called a Sifu. Since I also hold formal rank in the art of Lanada Kuntaw as a 3rd dan which I don't practice anymore..

    My point is what would be my title if I really wanted to be traditional and go with the art identifier as instructor? If you look at it, I hold the rank of sensei, guro and sifu in all the mentioned arts, that is the mind boggler..

    I tell my kid students to call me, Mr. and my adult students call me by my first name.. I am not one to get tied up on the philosophy or ego building names for the titles.. I tell people that I train people, no need to call me grand poohbah, master, or sijo..

    I am human and have no need to blow smoke up people's six, I train people who have a need for my specific talents in the combatives/martial arts systems that I teach, nothing ego driven about my teachings, just results..
     
  16. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Yes Kid's address Mr. and adults by first name. That always works good. [​IMG]
     
  17. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    "Sir" is good and always politically correct.
     
  18. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Brit with a stick

    Unless your a woman that is :D Mind you my wife has been called Sir Mam on several occassions when we where in the PI :cool3:
     
  19. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    She should take it as a compliment. She must exuded a powerful presence to be addressed as sir ma'm. Only in Fili by Fili to non-Fili.
     
  20. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    When I was young and in the service I remember addressing a female Major as Sir ( a big mistake made under duress)....that battle axe chewed my ass down to a bone. I was shocked..I had never heard a tiny little woman curse so boldly...lol..it was poetry...LOL. I think I still owe her push-ups...the meanest biotch that ever balled for beads...Major Margerie Slagle...I will never forget her...YIKES!
     

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