Discussion in 'General' started by kuntawguro, Jun 12, 2009.
One of my favorite quotations!
I never heard of the term guru used in martial arts filipino or otherwise and I was trained in the P.I.
Yep! No guru can be found in all weapon-based authentic FMA.. Not anywhere in the Philippines.
Why use kali in the first place? Why seek an "FMA" "name" that predates the Spanish? Who said that there was a name?
I don't have to go far to see that it was all arnis BEFORE it was christened as kali.
Anything kali the martial art can be traced right here right now without any doubt.
The kali movements yell the whole story. IMHO
Someone tried to call me Guru once, I asked them if I looked like a holy man hahaha!
I have little doubt that "Kali" was chosen to be used by Dan Inosanto do to the fact that it was little known. In other words it was a way to market yourself as unique and also to be at the forefront of the "Kali" movement.
On his part it was probably a good idea and as we all know it worked out well for him. Just my 02.
One of the reasons Remy Presas used arnis rather than eskrima was because it was lesser used, I believe...and this was in the Philippines!
I started my training in the Philippines in 1970. The name given to the stick and sword fighting we were being trained in was KALI, and the term for the techniques and skills was called Kaliluhan. This predates Guro Dan using the term by 6 years.......
I have no idea why there is such a muddle of people against calling sword arts Kali and stick arts Escrima or arnis. The label put on the stick art was Bugtongan. One of the things that really pisses me off is to be called sensei at gatherings or tournaments by Black Belts. I don't go around calling them Guros or Gurus. Even I have enough smarts to find out what rank a person is before i go calling them master or sensei.....Why anyone would stoop to calling themselves a soke dai or a soke in Filipino martial arts confuses the heck out of me too ( slowly shakes his head side to side).
and then to add insult to injury have a guy who teaches Korean and Filipino martial arts call himself Soke Dai?????
To me- this is just wrong
Buzz..I hear ya man...it's kind of like taking a shower with a rain coat on...makes little to NO sense. A Japanese title..in a predominantly Filipino system...mmm I guess someone forgot to check the history on that little quagmire....ww2 ring a bell?
Ahh Mr. Mittey we bid yee g'night!
Yeah, this drives me nuts too...but, given how widely the Japanese belt system and uniforms have been adopted, what can you do?
You need to back off on the japanese titles for fma.. Especially with the Rossi Kuntao group, who knows, the soke-dai might actually challenge you or call you out when you piss in his corn flakes.. Take it from experience, you were here when I got called out by the "Soke-dai" a year or so back.. BTW: You need to fear the Soke-dai, he is the inheritor of the system after training with the group for 7 yrs.. What happened to us when we were with our old association? Hell, we could be 12th Dan by now if we weren't renegades of the system..
I don't get upset about it anymore, I gave up along time ago about people listening..... Just like someone saying the all different ethnic groups in the PI all use the same term for rank, weapons and general terms for their arts. I remeber when GT can back from NJ one time after teaching ground fighting with a knife and empty hand. Everyone was saying," teach us your Silat Grandmaster!" He was madder than all get out.... He also hare it when people call his Talibong a Pinuti or call his instrucors Guro. Again, in traditional Hilligaynon it izzz Guru. Master of, is Mata-as-na. Yak'an is beginer and has nothing to do with Yakan the ethnic group, Lakan-advnced student. Yak'an, Lak'an, Guru/Mangungaway,
Matas-as-na/Agalon/Ulo, Tuhon, Matahiri-Tuhon/Datto/Mangunguna Guru does not mean master of in Hilligaynon. So it is different. I wish I wwas a master, but I have a couple of more year to go........ GT will not ever allow us to have anything to do with Japanese or Korean anything.....not after the inhumane crimes he has witnessed by both against his family and people. Well, except when it comes to competing against a Judoka in a grappling match.
Ironically, Spain had those as well...Which is why you train a FILIPINO martial art, and not Ookabanakachikogarangulatan.
See, I can do that too, throw out nonsensical quotes that are steeped in circular logic to avoid direct answers.
It's from the same root word, and means the exact same thing. To your neighbors in the south (Indo-Malay) it IS "Guru". It doesn't mean "Holy Man". I think nowadays so many people do a mixture of Filipino-Indo-Malay arts, that they interchange the titular office.
Well, not everyone knows every title of every art. I can forgive them for that, usually I just say "Call me Bobbe". (Not to Gathering attendees: DON'T CALL BUZZ SENSEI AT THE NEXT GATHERING!!!)
You know what's going to happen next year, right Buzz?
However, I REALLY scratch my head at the people who insist on adopting Japanese forms & dress for Filipino arts. I think it was Arnisador who said that the trouble was that Jigoror Kano's system of identification for Judo had been set as the standard for all other martial arts. I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. FMA has it's own standard of native attire, as well as rank and title. The Filipino bow is unique. Why not make it for the rest of the art as well?
Bill, you got called out??? I thought you & Buzz predated the Isrealites on the planet! Who called you out?
LOL, sorry bro....... Ulihiskaayo!=Later!
Damn aint that mules ass wore out yet?
What's wrong Mike, all these years of training and you can't hang in the "Is-Not" competitions???? LOL
i wasn't avoiding a direct answer, i was attempting to use a famous quote to answer your poor attempt to correct my word usage in a non-confrontational way. if you knew the first thing about language/dialect classification, or took two minutes to look it up, you might understand that the quote was neither nonsensical nor circular in its logic. it's an observation about the lack of a rigid distinction between the two, and how it's often guided by political factors. it's really pretty self-explanatory and catchy, which is why it's well known. it was a pretty silly question, even if it was to determine my opinion on the linguistic classification of tagalog (which isn't germane to the discussion), so i gave it a silly answer to avoid busting your chops.
but since you seem to need a direct answer, no i didn't mean dialect, i meant language.
Oh, Tim...Did I hurt ooo widdle feewings? I sowwy.
(Actually, you used "i was" instead of "I was". I corrected your grammar as well. It's a writer thing.)
Well then, you failed miserably. I took this
Coupled with this:
To arrive at the conclusion that you weren't trying to hold a discussion, give an opinion or even be directly argumentative, which I would have welcomed.
You were just being flip and glib to someone who was genuinely interested in a discussion on this topic. All I did was respond in kind. Now you've escalated it and yourself from something that had potential to upper class twit of the year.
I'm quite familiar with it, Tim, and it's entomology. Maybe you should have carried it further, instead of trying to sound like all the other high school clones who read Marx, quote Nietzsche and try to appear "deep" when all they did was "memorize".
No, it's not. It encourages you to think an inch deep on the subject and then quit.
[/FONT]As to your reasoning: Kuso.
You did it because you thought it made you look cute. Shoot for intelligence next time.
I didn't try to "correct" you on anything, Tim, I defy you to show me where I did. I asked you a question. One that you avoided. And then tried to cover with some arrogant high-handedness, as if you alone were some God-presented authority on the subject. When I tried to ASK you for an answer deeper than two sentences, you ran for the hills. Actually, Tim, I had a hard time deducing anything from your tirade, having to work around all the straw men you threw up in the way. Your footwork must be excellent, you avoided a direct answer with a dexterity that would make Villabrille himself gape in awe.
I'm sorry if I was expecting too much out of you, Tim. I usually request people cite sources and give intelligent discourse on topics they engage me in.
I'll certainly know better in the future.
Er, Bobbe, you lost me with the entomology... Is it not the "bug-science"?
Yepp..the Edmonds express is on track...must be out of meds or out of CHIMAY.
That's it beat that mule...beat it again and again...!
This convo has turned into HIGH SCHOOL confidential....
Proving once again that old Internet adage that every grammar flame must itself contain a similar error.
This is an interesting issue, dudes, but it really isn't being discussed in an interesting way at this point.
Separate names with a comma.