Offensive avatar

Discussion in 'General' started by silat1, Aug 23, 2008.

  1. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    I recently received an email from one of the contributors of this forum stating that the avatar in my signature was offensive.

    My question to the group is does my avatar offend anyone with it's saying: "It's one nation under god or bite my ass and just leave".

    I am posting this question as it is not my intent to offend anyone in the forum as it seems that this avatar is hitting the wrong chords with some..

    I leave it up to the group, if it is thought that the avatar is offensive, I will delete it and put in another one that is more "sensitive" and "politically correct" :kicknuts:

    Let me know the general thoughts of this posting and if necessary I will take corrective actions
  2. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Offensive, tell you the truth I never paid attention to it. Must be some one with extremely thin skin or a holier than thou attitude...gees give me a break. What ever happened to freedom of I guess they'd just as soon blow the first amendment that is offensive!

    And yes Freedom of Speech includes expression.
  3. Damien Alexander

    Damien Alexander Junior Member

    you got my support brother!

  4. Twist

    Twist Junior Member

    Not that I'd care at all about the avatar, but if you talk about freedom of speech.. isn't the avatar itself a proposal for a restriction of "freedom of speech" ?
  5. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Darth Vindicatus Supporting Member

    I disagree with the statement, but IMHO it's ok. Doesn't violate any of the sites rules, and doesn't bother me.

    As to "Freedom of Speech" though, I do have to say it doesn't apply here (or on 99% of the web). Long discussion, short version.
  6. geezer

    geezer Member

    RE "Offensive" Avatar

    Hey, I always thought the best defense was to be offensive. Just ask anyone who knows me! -LOL. But seriously, I'm a such a highly sensitive pinko super-liberal that I should train in tights and a pink tutu. And you know what offends me the most? Mindless PC censorship, intolerance for diverse opinions and a general lack of any sense of humor. Especially the ability to laugh at yourself. So, if they don't like your avatar, I'd say tell 'em to bite your arse and take a hike. Oh, that's right... you already did!
  7. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    Well the "under God" was added recently in history. I think it was in the early 50's during another real conservative period of time in the USA.

    Does it insult me as a statement? No.

    Does it make me upset, because people do not understand it was not in the original and was put in while the country was in a state of hysteria and looking everyone to find Communists who did not believe in god.

    If you understand the history and you choose to make your opinion know then so be it. If you are just spouting off a religious view point then I am frustrated with that condition and those that propagate the incorrect information by assumption.
  8. MichaelJB

    MichaelJB New Member

    I've always thought that an insult can only be taken, not given. If someone is insulted or offended due to "whatever", then the issue lies within that individual, not the "whatever" that caused the offense.
  9. Kali Cowboy

    Kali Cowboy New Member

    If not under God, then who are we under?
    Everyone serves some body!
    At least that is what Bob Dylan says!
  10. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    Doesn't bother me either. I'm not that easy to offend though.
  11. tellner

    tellner New Member

    Offensive? Not exactly. But it lets me know who I need to watch out for. Thanks for the warning, bro'.

    The first thing we need is a little history lesson.

    The Pledge of Allegiance was written by Frank Bellamy, a Socialist schoolteacher. It was a secular oath of loyalty to America. The word "equality" was in there originally, but the Right Thinking People(tm) shouted him down. They were horrified by the idea that "equality for all" might include Negroes and Women.

    "Under G-d" was added in 1954 at the same time they stuck "In G-d We Trust" onto the dollar bill. President Eisenhower was trying to shore up Catholic support. The Knights of Columbus lobbied him to stick the words into the mint and the pledge. They wanted to show the Commies that we meant business and had the Big Guns on our side. It was a cheap political gimmick that didn't cost anyone anything. Nobody interviewed the Almighty and asked Him what He thought of being used as a political football. I suppose He's used to it by now.

    OK, so now we know where it came from. Here's where we are now.

    I love my country. I love what it stands for. And one of the things it's always stood for is that if you're an American, you're an American. "Race, color, creed or place of national origin" don't matter. You can be a Protestant, a Catholic, a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist or an Atheist. You can be from Ireland, Iceland, Indonesia, India or Iran. It doesn't matter. If you're born here or you take the Oath you're an American like anyone else.

    I don't believe in what they preach at your church. You probably don't believe in what they preach at mine. And that's cool. As long as we don't blow up each others' churches it's all good. What ticks me off is you saying that I have to believe what you do to be American. And if I don't I'm not a citizen and have no right to be in the country I was born in.

    The easy thing to do would be a long list of quotes and legal decisions from Washington and Madison on down hammering everyone with the fact that the people who founded this country didn't want a bunch of witch-burners at the helm. They were horrified by the idea of religious tests for citizenship (see Article VI of the Constitution) because they knew it led to night riders, murder, rape, exile and atrocity. And they knew it was as bad for the Church as it was for the State. But I won't bore you with it. The True Believers and Know Nothings wouldn't listen if the Angel With the Sword came down and branded it on their butts. The rest don't have to be told.

    Boychick, Are you an American Jew or a Jew who lives in America?

    That's what my Silat 1, my first Silat teacher asks me every once in a while. My answer has always been "I'm an American until the rest of America says I'm a Jew. Then I'll be a corpse because I won't run, and I won't lie, and I won't go to the Camps." And if you think that's far-fetched you haven't read your American history.

    My grandparents moved to America so that they could be Americans. They didn't have to be Jewish Americans or Russian Americans or Romanian Americans. They were free to just be Americans. They gave up their language and most of their culture to just be Americans. They didn't do it so that another bunch of no-neck brutes in dog collars could force them to convert, die or be forced out of their homes.

    The difference between them and me is they were willing to run and live rather than stand and die when the Cossacks came around. I'm not so reasonable. This is my country. And I'm willing to die to keep it that way.

    Then there's my wife. Her father's people were brought over in chains and were 3/5 of a person for purposes of the census. They weren't Americans. They weren't even human. They were livestock. But they suffered through slavery and the night riders and the Klan and Jim Crow. They were shot, lynched, burned out, fire-hosed, savaged by Bull Connor's dogs and finally became Americans.

    And you have the gall to say that if they don't march in lock-step with your church their courage means nothing.

    Her mother left China when she was eleven years old. Her family escaped Mao's Revolutionary Guards, abandoned everything and risked their lives to come to America. They were willing to die to be Americans. And when the Commissars found out they nearly did. They're Buddhists. They don't believe in your G-d. But they believed in America enough to give everything for it.

    And you have the gall to spit on them by saying "Bite me and just leave" because they don't believe in your G-d.

    What did you do to become an American? You were lucky enough to be born here and have the right color skin. These other brave men and women were willing to leave everything behind. Some of them were willing to risk their lives and the lives of their children on the hope that they might be permitted to be Americans.

    And you have the gall to say that if they don't follow your religion or something close enough that it doesn't offend you they don't deserve to be here.

    And me? I'd rather just get on with my life and be an American. That means letting you go to your church while I go to my synagogue and my wife goes to her mosque. If you don't think our beliefs are Politically Correct enough and decide we should leave, then we've got issues. You'll have to come with guns. And you'll have to kill us because we aren't going anywhere. We love America and we love freedom too much to let people like you take it away.

    We're not leaving.
    We'd rather not bite you, especially the parts you want us to.
    We won't sew yellow stars or green crescents or a scarlet "A" on our clothes.
    And we won't step onto that train.
  12. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Same here. It isn't something I agree with--and I understand some of tellner's taking offense at this; for example, rather than leaving this country, I worked as an instructor at West Point instead--but who wants a site that has nothing but stuff I agree with? To my mind it just expresses your opinion. I don't come away thinking that you'd be uncivil to me just because I don't feel the same way. It's just a bumper sticker to me--it lets you express your opinion on something. That's part of what your .sig is for, after all.

    Yup. This site is somebody's personal property.
  13. geezer

    geezer Member

    Continuing on the offensive.

    As usual, a well thought out response. Tellner. And not totally devoid of humor (ref. bolded script above). A couple of comments: First of all, unlike the Mother Russia your ancestors left, as Woodie Guthrie put it, "This land is your land, this land is my land..." So of course, you won't leave. Neither will I. Secondly, I believe it is far more patriotic to speak up to better your country when it goes astray than to quietly conform and insist that everything is just OK. And behind the slogan, I'll bet Silat feels the same way... I really gotta do something about this rhyming thing...most annoying. Sorry!
  14. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Avatar changed to alleviate the flame war I see on the horizon
  15. Shaun

    Shaun New Member

    No,I do not find your avatar offensive in the slightest. I personally like avatars which give some indication as to the posters personality,which is I suppose the purpose of an avatar.
  16. Imua Kuntao

    Imua Kuntao New Member

    I dont see the "flame war", and it is a shame that you changed it. Everyone says its your right to say what you want and that it shows your personality. Just dont try to impose your beliefs on the others and make them leave our country. Yes, you may not say what you want, this is an internet site/forum and people have been banned (ptk) for their thinking and shouting of superioroity. We are all Americans and we must watch out for or future, I believe are country is going to be suffering soon (the economy), and I am not so sure the change is going to do us good. I am glad you see yourself as an American, but please, all Americans should live together in peace, and to do our own thing.
  17. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    1. I'm not...but wouldn't mind staying and participating in this forum, if that's OK all you who are. :)

    2. If doing your own thing includes doing it down here and throwing bombs on my country as you did back in 1999, then I might be tempted to seriously debate you on how much does it have to do with freedom of America IN America...
  18. Black Grass

    Black Grass Junior Member

    Offensive, no. Tacky, maybe. Just tell that person not to read you posts and go away.
  19. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Now this would be an offensive avatar....and I ain't talking about the cross..LOL[​IMG]
  20. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    Oh God - No!

    A few weeks before this thread caught on fire I had started reading John Meacham's American Gospel: God, the Founding Fathers, and the Making of a Nation. His argument that the founding fathers advocated both a "public" religion and a God of "Providence" is compelling, as is his consideration of the aspects of religious freedom for which they felt compelled to argue. Noteworthy also are his descriptions of the ways in which pundits, from both the right and left attempt, co-opt the writings of the founding fathers in ways that either ignore or do not represent the contexts in which those writings were made.

    At about $0.25 from some resellers it's worth a look at.



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