MT: Senior Master "Bambit" Dulay's Website

Discussion in 'Modern Arnis' started by balita, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. balita

    balita <B>News Bot</B>

    Senior Master "Bambit" Dulay's Website
    By Salagubang - Fri, 20 Jun 2008 03:02:39 GMT

    ====================

    Master of Tapi-Tapi
    http://www.bambittapitapi.com/


    Read More...


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  2. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    But he isn't exactly a Master of Tapi-Tapi in the sense that the Prof. gave out that title, is he? I find this a bit misleading:

    That's a specific title the Prof. used.
     
  3. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    Have to agree with you there. At least from what I've been exposed to the M.O.T.T.s are a specific and finite group like the Datu and there were only so many named and when the next group (or maybe class would be a better name? Like a graduating class.) came along Prof. Remy came up with another name for that group. Then again, my exposure to Modern Arnis was short lived (only about a year or so) and I haven't been researching it as much as I once was, so I may have things a bit skewed in my brain.
     
  4. Mono

    Mono Member

    Great to see Master Dulay have his own site now!

    About the MOTT Sentence: I am sure no one hat the Intention of bringing about any confusions abot the "Title" MOTT - since it is a "purely American" Thing it might not be as "Present" in the Minds of the Philippinos such as more common Titles like Datu.

    Tapi Tapi is also something VERY Different in the Philippines then it is in the US, (depending who you train with) and not always connected to the "Drill" that in the Later Years became known as "Tapi Tapi" on wich the Title "MOTT" is based (this is based on what I have seen in the PI and from MA people from the US!).
    The "Tapi Tapi Drill" was basically the "latest stage of Development" the Professor taught in the US - it was not the way he had been teaching in the Philippines before he cam to the US; so this "Drill" is quite unknown in the PI. There are only a few Students of Remy who have been taught this "latest Version" of Tapi Tapi by him personally when he made his last Trips back to the PI. (I do not exactly know who all he has been training with exactly and how much but I do know that Master Dulay was one of them, getting his share of the "new" Tapi Tapi Training)
    But mainly in the Modern Arnis Comunity of the Philippines it basicallyis a "Counter for Counter" Method (that became know in the US more by the name of "the Flow").

    Master Dulay Teaches it in this way even though he incorporates the "new" Progression and the "old" Method as well as Incorporating the Classical Styles of Modern Arnis into his Teachings of Tapi Tapi.

    (See his Bio:
    Using the classical theories of Palis system, Abaniko system, and the Krusada system Master Dulay incorporates and manipulates the movements and theories to excel in Tapi Tapi.)

    This is also already outlined in the First Site of the Website:

    The heart of Modern Arnis is Tapi-Tapi, which means, "counter for counter." The idea is simple: no matter what your opponent does, be educated and prepared with a counter. When two practitioners work together, the counters continue back and forth until one partner "catches" the other.

    So I believe what was meant in his Bio is, that Master Dulay is a "Master" (as an expression for someone who es very proficient at something) of the "Counter For Counter" Method - not reffering to the "Title" "Master of Tapi Tapi" and I also do not believe that any missleading confusion was meant intentionally!

    If he has not read about this confusion on this Forum already, I will let him Know that - in order to not cause any further Confusion - it might be helpfullto re phrase the sentence.
    There is enough Politics in MA already - lets not contribute to things that do the Art of Professor Presas no good!

    Greetings from Germany!

    Philipp "Mono" Wolf
     
  5. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Thanks for your positive comments! I do think that's what is meant, but I do feel it's an unfortunate way of phrasing matters.
     
  6. Brian Johns

    Brian Johns Junior Member

    Having worked extensively with the Masters of Tapi Tapi, in particular with Master Chuck Gauss, I have the following to offer:

     
  7. Brian Johns

    Brian Johns Junior Member

    I'm reposting since my original reply may be hard to locate (which is now in bold):

    Originally Posted by Mono [​IMG]
    Great to see Master Dulay have his own site now!

    About the MOTT Sentence: I am sure no one hat the Intention of bringing about any confusions abot the "Title" MOTT - since it is a "purely American" Thing it might not be as "Present" in the Minds of the Philippinos such as more common Titles like Datu.

    Tapi Tapi is also something VERY Different in the Philippines then it is in the US, (depending who you train with) and not always connected to the "Drill" that in the Later Years became known as "Tapi Tapi" on wich the Title "MOTT" is based (this is based on what I have seen in the PI and from MA people from the US!).

    How is it different in the Phillipines than in the US ? Have you worked with any of the Masters of Tapi Tapi ? They will be the first to tell you that it's not a "drill." We have heard this so many times over the years. It is the concept of "counter for counter."



    The "Tapi Tapi Drill" was basically the "latest stage of Development" the Professor taught in the US - it was not the way he had been teaching in the Philippines before he cam to the US; so this "Drill" is quite unknown in the PI. There are only a few Students of Remy who have been taught this "latest Version" of Tapi Tapi by him personally when he made his last Trips back to the PI. (I do not exactly know who all he has been training with exactly and how much but I do know that Master Dulay was one of them, getting his share of the "new" Tapi Tapi Training)

    Again, Tapi Tapi is not a "drill." It is a "live" and progressive concept and means "counter for counter." Where is this idea that it is a drill coming from ? It is a counter for counter method of fighting.

    Master Dulay Teaches it in this way even though he incorporates the "new" Progression and the "old" Method as well as Incorporating the Classical Styles of Modern Arnis into his Teachings of Tapi Tapi.



    (See his Bio:
    Using the classical theories of Palis system, Abaniko system, and the Krusada system Master Dulay incorporates and manipulates the movements and theories to excel in Tapi Tapi.)

    This is also already outlined in the First Site of the Website:

    The heart of Modern Arnis is Tapi-Tapi, which means, "counter for counter." The idea is simple: no matter what your opponent does, be educated and prepared with a counter. When two practitioners work together, the counters continue back and forth until one partner "catches" the other.



    That is exactly what the US Masters of Tapi Tapi teach. I fail to see the difference between what you describe is taught in the Philippines and what is taught in the US.

    So I believe what was meant in his Bio is, that Master Dulay is a "Master" (as an expression for someone who es very proficient at something) of the "Counter For Counter" Method - not reffering to the "Title" "Master of Tapi Tapi" and I also do not believe that any missleading confusion was meant intentionally!

    I have seen Master Bambit once and I was very impressed with his skills. I'm just concerned that he is using this title when, to the best of my knowledge, he was not awarded this title by Professor Presas.

    Based on the language of Bambit's website, I don't see what the difference between what he describes he is doing versus what was taught to the Masters of Tapi Tapi and what is being propagated by them these days.

    If he has not read about this confusion on this Forum already, I will let him Know that - in order to not cause any further Confusion - it might be helpfullto re phrase the sentence.
    There is enough Politics in MA already - lets not contribute to things that do the Art of Professor Presas no good!

    Greetings from Germany!

    Philipp "Mono" Wolf



    Take care,
    Brian Johns
     
  8. Alakd'an

    Alakd'an New Member

    My 2 cents

    Hey, Brian

    I hope things are going well for your club/school up in Canada, eh?

    I have seen your posts and agree with most of what you have to say.

    I think what Master Dulay is doing is just what most Instructors do when they try to promote themselves. They take on titles or descriptions of their skills. I do not think it is Master Dulays intent to ride the "coat tails" of the MOTT's or try to infringe on the Title they earned from Grandmaster Presas.

    I do see your point and do agree that he was not given the Title by Grandmaster Presas.

    But, is that particular "Title" exclusive to just the MOTT's?

    (This is to EVERYONE reading this forum topic, This next line of questions is NOT intended to diminish the MOTT's whatsoever.)

    Let me explain my question better.

    Why can't you or anyone who has gained proficiency in the Counter for Counter (Tapi-Tapi) fighting concept claim this as long as they do not claim they got it from Grandmaster Presas. Has there been some copyright or trademark on this Title so as to no other person can attain "Master of Tapi Tapi" status.

    Could the MOTT's pass on this Title to their students who attain the same or better "Mastery" of this skill? And if they cannot, why not?

    Is it not the responsibility of the Teacher to pass on the titles and ranks they achieve to the next generation as their students gain the same or better skills to keep the "Art" alive?

    Do other Martial Systems or styles have titles and ranks that they pass on to their students? Or even new titles and ranks that evolve over time, that are passed on to others, that did not get them from the head of the system or Grandmaster of that style?

    Are there literally only "one of seven" Masters of Tapi-Tapi today around the world? Considering all the FMA's out there, and the skill levels of thosse practicing "Tapi-Tapi", could we in all seriousness make the claim, "one of seven"?


    Besides, are we really worried about what is happening thousands of miles away? And how would that affect those of us who have chosen to carry on Modern Arnis over here?

    These again are just my thoughts and this is a good discussion to have.

    I am very happy to hear that you have continued the "Art" with you to Canada.

    Continue the good work and I wish you great success.

    Yours in Modern Arnis,

    Ben
    Senior Supreme Nacho Grand Pooba of S.M.A.C.
    I trained 3 minutes longer than any one with the Grandmaster, in between breaks at a seminar, and was taught a "Secret" Presas Family Arnis Death move in the parking lot, after dropping off the Grandmaster at the airport, so there....neener neener neener!
     
  9. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman FMA Talk Founder Supporting Member

    Just my opinion.

    Prof. Presas used different titles for different things. Unfortunately none of us knew what Remy’s entire definitions were. I was awarded several titles. Here is the list:
    • Guro - one of many
    • Punong Guro – one of only two award by Prof. Presas in the states
    • Protégé – don’t know how many
    • Datu – one of six
    That being said I have my own opinion on the use of titles that Prof used inside the Modern Arnis community. I question the wisdom of Dulay’s use of the title of MoTT. This was a term used by GM Remy. There is no way for anyone to stop him from using the term. If the current MoTTs would like to issue that title to someone, that would be alright. If Dulay chose to use that title on his own, I would say that it may be in bad taste.
    Considering that we are talking about a Modern Arnis practitioner using a Modern Arnis title. Then yes, just like I’m one of only six Modern Arnis Datus in the world. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and this one is mine.

    P.S. For the record I don’t agree with the MoTTs definition of their title.
     
  10. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I understand Alakd'an's point, esp. since this title could be constructed incidentally as he indicates, but I do have to agree it's in bad taste to use a title the Prof. did when he didn't give it out and didn't specify criteria for awarding it. I do agree that if the MOTTs awarded it I'd view it somewhat differently.

    But--we can certainly agree to disagree on this! He's a great practitioner and no one is disputing that.
     
  11. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman FMA Talk Founder Supporting Member

    The problem here is communication. I have talk to many different Filipinos on what Tapi-Tapi means. I've never gotten the same answer. The problem is that there are many different dialects of the Filipino language. That being said there are many different interpretations on what the word can mean. Add to the equation that Remy spoke several different dialects. Quite formula for miscommunication!
     
  12. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman FMA Talk Founder Supporting Member

    Agreed.
     
  13. Datu Dieter

    Datu Dieter Junior Member

    Hi Tim and the others,

    first of all, this is NOT an attack on you or Dan. Not at all.

    Well, I think Bambit is doing what you and Dan have done as well: Do what you think is right, not worrying about what others think.
    Dan got a lot of beating for the use of the "Professor" title, for how he got the 8th Dan and now how he got the Grandmaster title.
    You got a lot of beating for how you got 7th and 9th Dan as well as later 9th Dan and Grandmaster in Komabtan.
    Did you and Dan care about what others said or thought about it?
    No you did not. You did what you thought is right and necessary.

    So now Bambit is doing the same thing I guess.
    In have trained with GM Remy and almost every higher ranked person in Modern Arnis, be it in the Philippines or in the US. With some US MoTTs not very intensively, but exept of Ken Smith I know them all personally.
    And I can tell you, that Bambit has all the new Tapi-Tapi of GM Remy.

    He is extremely gifted in what an how he does things.
    No matter if he got the tile of GM Remy ot not, he IS a Master of Tapi-Tapi skillwise.

    I will see him on Friday in Manila during my 4 weeks stay in the Philippines and I will talk with him about it.

    Greetings

    Dieter Knüttel
    Datu of Modern Anris
     
  14. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Well, I do see your point, and I don't doubt your assessment of his skills...but I still wonder if saying the same thing another way would be better? Even saying he is a "Tapi-Tapi Master" is enough different that it isn't the specific title of someone else.
     
  15. Datu Dieter

    Datu Dieter Junior Member

    Maybe, sure one could do this.

    But, and now I am purely guessing, maybe he wants po make a statement there.
    To point out, that there are also Filipinos, that are masters of Tapi-Tapi.
    As wa way of starting a discussion. I don't know, I will ask him.

    As I said, only a guess.

    But if a Filipino deserve the title "Master of Tapi Tapi", then it would be Bambit.



    Regards

    Dieter Knüttel
    Datu of Modern Arnis
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2008
  16. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman FMA Talk Founder Supporting Member

    What would you have thought if he used the title Datu?
     
  17. Datu Dieter

    Datu Dieter Junior Member

    I don't say that I agree with what he did or how he did it.
    I just offer a few possible explanations.

    I think it leads to misunderstanding, if he uses the title like that.
    But so did Dans "Professor" title and so does your promotions.

    And if he would have used the Datu title, sure, I would have probably thought "how can he do this".

    But again, you do what you think is right, not caring what others do or say.
    Dan the same and in the end, Remy did the same too.
    He carried on with his way of doing things, no matter what others do.

    And in the Philippines, people are not so aware of the MoTTs as in the US.
    As an example: Your atavar here reminds me strongly to the "iron Cross" awarde by the Nazis in WWII to war heroes.

    See here to compare to your atavar:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Did you intend to remind at the iron cross? I don't think so. Does it disturb me? Yes, a lot.
    Do hold it against you? Not at all, because I think (hope) it is done unintentionally.

    So, I don't really think Bambit did it to harm American feelings.

    Regards


    Dieter Knüttel
    Datu of Modern Arnis
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2008
  18. Mono

    Mono Member

    It seems I was right by saying it was a "mistaken Use of Language" and NOT intended to be connected with the "Titel" of MOTT...

    As you can check yourself, the Website has been changed:

    Master Samuel “Bambit” Dulay is what one would call a Master in the ways of Tapi Tapi, except in his humble way he continuously seeks more and more knowledge and skill in the movements and techniques, focusing on the use of the cane(s) and related weapons of the body.

    ...

    Yours,
    Mono
     
  19. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Well folks I would not get to worked up about this. Titles are just titles anyways. (and anyone can have one) Plus do we know for sure that Remy did not award him the title of Master of Tapi-Tapi when he was last in the Philippines? Heck what happens when MARPPIO people achieve 6th Degree and declare themselves Datu? What happens when the next person starts calling themselves Professor? What happens when someone declares that they are the Grandmaster of Modern Arnis. (wait someone already did that aka Deleany) Well what happens when it happens again?

    Dan is head/founder of MA-80
    Tim is head/founder of WMAA
    Dieter is head/founder of DAV
    Motts are head of their branch
    Deleany is head of his branch
    All of the Filipino Masters are head of their own branches
    MARPPIO is head of their own branch
    etc.....

    As to titles well they sound nice but in reality it is your skills that matter. [​IMG]

    I can truthfully and honestly see the issues here but in the end it is pretty meaningless to worry about it!

    Keep training and not worry to much what everyone else is doing. [​IMG]

    Train with as many different people and experience their flavor of Modern Arnis. [​IMG] Who knows you might find something new and cool! [​IMG]
     
  20. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I'm sure you're right that the MOTT title isn't known as well over there. Still, I must admit that the new phrasing is more appealing to me!

    When our German foreign exchange student who stayed with us last year saw a button like the one below, she turned it in to a teacher, thinking it was a Nazi SS symbol. I have known that logo since the 70s and it doesn't remind me of that at all, but when she showed it to me I got it!
     

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