MT: GM Atillo's new web site

Discussion in 'Balintawak' started by balita, Oct 29, 2006.

  1. balita

    balita <B>News Bot</B>

    GM Atillo's new web site
    By Morgan - Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:23:33 GMT


    I found this new web site yesterday. A very well done production with some highly infomative commentary. It seems that in the past there have been some discussions and disagreements about the roots of Balintawak, as well as who is who and what is what within the system(s). I have listed the site address below and i would love to have the membership's opinions after you people read through the data, most particularly the history section.



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  2. Cruentus

    Cruentus Tactician

    My opinion is that the "history" portion is a load of B.S..

    I express myself fairly clearly in the original thread if you click the "read more" link above...

  3. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    Hey Paul,

    The website doesn't look like that of a charlatan from an uneducated eye. What do you think should be corrected or changed?
  4. Cruentus

    Cruentus Tactician

    Hi Carol,

    Some of it is just heresay and untruth, which actually doesn't bother me that much. Many old Filipino instructors have told mythology, or what I call "blind princess stories" (taken from the old notion of an instructor traveling through the mountains to learn the secrets of Eskrima from a blind princess), and there is no harm done.

    It's the blatent disrespect to his contemporaries that I disagree with. That is something that you just don't do, in Filipino culture especially.

    Here are a few examples of what I mean:

    1. His version of "history" intentionally tries to downplay Anciong Bacon's involvement, when Anciong was clearly the founder of the Original Balintawak Club.
    2. Constently painting people in an unfavorable light, like saying Anciong was "running" when Doring would "overwhelm him with strikes".
    3. Constantly trys to bolster himself by cutting down others. Example, saying that he put Ted Buot "in his place" by hitting him in the head in a sparring match; both unsubstantiated and untrue.
    4. Listing the "real fighters" of the club, as if others weren't "real fighters." This is both untrue and disrespectful because many people from the club not listed by him had been in fights.
    5. Paints this picture of Cacoy Canete as both a jerk and a coward throughout the entire account; something that is both unfair and hasn't been substantiated by outside sources.
    6. Telling lies about how he Dominated Bacon in a sparring match, again painting someone in an unfavorable light to bolster himself.
    7. Blatently misrepresents his fight against Cacoy, a man 20 years his senior, insulting the Doce Pares people in the process.

    Now, these are just to mention a few things. There are a lot of untruths told on that site, and there are a lot of things that have been substantiated that I could say about Atillo if I wanted to turn this into a mudslinging match. But, that is not what is important to me. What I take issue with is the blatent disrespect he shows his contemporaries. You see, through my experience, and as I said in the other thread on MT, in Filipino culture, you don't paint people in an unfavorable light, especially not with those who have passed away or are older and not in good enough health to defend themselves, and especially not in print or on a website. In fact, most of the time, even if you have had a challange match with someone, you let witnessess talk about it. You don't say how you kicked this guys ass here, or put this guy in his place there.

    He is disrespecting people, many of whom are not alive or healthy today to defend themselves, which is abhorrible. There are deep reasons why, in Filipino culture particularly, that you don't disrespect family names and instructors and elders and the deceased or physically ill.

    So, besides violating what would be considered good taste and business sense here in the U.S., he is greatly violating what would be considered respectful in his own culture.

    He is behaving in poor taste and disrespectfully, and I have a serious problem with that.

  5. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    Thanks so much Paul. I really appreciate your input. Your description gave me a chance to catch a flavor of it all. :bow:
  6. Cruentus

    Cruentus Tactician

    No problem Carol.

    I am actually glad you asked the question, thus giving me a chance to explain. I want people to understand that it is not that I want to start a conflict or personal fued on the internet, but that there are some real concerns here. I actually think this is real a shame. Ising Atillo grew up during a very interesting time in Filipino history, and from all accounts I have heard his father was a good man. I know for a fact that there are many people that would help Atillo and support his efforts to get his material out there, despite lineage differences or methodology, if it wasn't for this sort of stuff. So in the long run, he really hurts himself.

    Anyhow, thanks again, and I'll talk to you soon!


  7. teovel'sBalintawak

    teovel'sBalintawak New Member

    You are right Paul he is just changing pages in history. I think that is his way of bussiness to make a name for himself.
  8. neojake73

    neojake73 New Member

    So in the long run, he really hurts himself

    Hi Paul,

    First of all, I am very new to FMA and Balintawak but it is clear by the mass number of articles, clippings, stories, etc. that I have researched, read and listened to (from people who were there during this time), that without GM Bacon there would be no Balintawak. He took the initiative. I am so happy that you had a chance to point out all the things you did in your post and I hope all FMAtalk subscribers get a chance to read it. I have read the special edition in FMA digest on Atillo Balintawak and I have read everything on his new website and it clearly expresses what you have pointed out.

    Lastly I have to comment on this excert from the Atillo website "Anciong Bacon and his students alone cannot claim Balintawak because many of its original members were not students of Anciong Bacon". If these members were not students of Anciong Bacon's then they were riding his coattails and should of had the courtesy and courage to start there own schools somewhere else and, I repeat, GM Bacon took this initiative. That's just my opinion, of which I am entitled.

    Thank-you so much for putting into words what has been eating at me for months now. Respect all FMA.
  9. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

    The people in the Balintawak Arnis community

    There were people who in their own personal motivation, attempts to change the pages of history telling of their own stories without considering the sensitivity of the other people. This people misuse the name of the Balintawak arnis and downgrading our great Grandmaster Venancio (Anciong) Bacon saying they are the original, although according to them is not in name that matters but on the effectiveness of the art, seems to have a good point. But an expert good Master of the Balintawak Arnis could really sees plenty of holes in their style comparing it to Anciong’s. Non-Balintawak martial artist will only believed because this people were really good in acting and talking.

    However, I feel that Balintawak people around the world have the right to know of the real truth and nobody can articulate the story except the people who knows them best. This guy that I was referring to was known in the Balintawak community in Cebu because he is a son to one of the students of Anciong Bacon the inventor of the art. To tell the world about the exact story, Anciong did not really involve in organizing any group, because what he really wanted to do all his life is only to teach his craft. Anciong has no formal education and that is one reason he cannot lead people or manage a group and he is also do not want to be under a leader of a martial art group whom he believed could not be superior to him in terms of ability in arnis.

    Anciong called his martial art as “ CUENTADA” , it is the other people who only call them the Balintawak group, because they frequently have their practice session at the back of a watch repair shop of one of his students in Balintawak St. in downtown Cebu City. Ancion’s first student was Delfin Lopez and Delfin invited his friend Vicente Atillo to also learn with him, but according to some people in the Balintawak community here in Cebu, Vicente Atillo did not really absorbed the style of Anciong and he was not known to be teaching of the art here. In the mid 1965 Mr. Teofilo Velez asked the permission of Anciong to formally organize the Balintawak group in his residence. Atty. Villasin joined with him and was elected the President until his death in 1987.

    Other students of Anciong are not joining in the Velez and Villasin’s group, but later on formed their own organization; Timor Maranga established the Tres Personas Escrima Maranga, Vicente Atillo established the NACVAM (National Arnis for Central Visayas and Mindanao) with his son as the architect, but his son change it to Atillo Balintawak when the NACVAM was not selling. Arnulfo Mongcal established a group in Misamis Oriental, Teddy Bu-ot went abroad, Arturo Sanchez teaches the art in his residence in R.R. Landon St. Cebu City and lately Bobby Tabimina established a group in Manila and etc.

  10. Robert Klampfer

    Robert Klampfer New Member

    I'm a bit confused -- are you agreeing with the quoted statement, or what?

  11. neojake73

    neojake73 New Member

    I thought my statement after the quote was pretty direct. I am pointing out the inconsistency of the quote.
  12. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    My understanding was that Atillo was going to name his at in connection to Sevaadra, but insead went with Balintawak at he request of his father. I could be mistaken on that, but I seem to remember hearing that somewhere. I'm not sure if that was from Atillo himself, or another source.
  13. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

    Vicente Atillo's Arnis style

    Vicente Atillo did not adopt the style of Anciong Bacon… anybody will notice the big difference... referring to their video, demonstrated by his son (Vicente’s only known student here in Cebu during his lifetime).

    So therefore their style cannot be called Balintawak because the name has been attributed already to Anciong,s long before the establishment of their NACVAM. If we believed on the son’s story that it was his father’s request, then Vicente Atillo must be wrong because he has no authority to use the name as he is not adopting the style so named after it.

    During Anciong’s time his students are called students of the Balintawak Arnis. Vicente Atillo’s son is not a student to Anciong of the Balintawak Arnis but he is a student to his father who is adopting only the style of Doring Saavedra his first teacher of Arnis and not of the Balintawak style invented by Anciong.


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