Modern Arnis Organizations, Whats the Difference?

Discussion in 'Modern Arnis' started by The Game, Dec 23, 2006.

  1. The Game

    The Game Pain

    I see a number of different orgs now, 2 IMAF's, WMAA, WMAC, MARPPIO, AMAA, etc. Whats the differences between them really? I'm not asking who's "pure", or "the best". That's really a matter of opinion, and one I'd rather form on my own. What I'm looking for is, what are the differences between the groups? Does one focus more on stick over blade, or open hand over stick, etc.
  2. The Game

    The Game Pain

    Oh, please no politics. Seen enough of that in the past. Thanks!
  3. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Darth Vindicatus Supporting Member

    It depends on a number of factors.
    Some seek to preserve the last version of the art that they saw, some have made changes to it seeking to take it forward, etc.
  4. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I don't think there are big differences in that regard. There are minor differences in the curricula, plus disagreements about who should lead and who should follow.

    A few differences from my experience (bear in mind the similarities are much greater): The IMAF-Schea group emphasizes tapi-tapi. The IMAF-Delaney group has more groundwork. The WMAA has a greater Balintawak influence. The MARPPIO and IMAFP groups have a more classical approach, including more (explicit) bladework. The DAV blends Kombatan influences in. The MA-80 branch is a karateka's take on the art. I don't know much about the WMAC and AMAA but I believe they merge in more non-FMA arts.
  5. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    At their core, Martial Arts organizations legislate matters pertaining to rank...what material a (say) blue belt or a first black should know...what are the schools where one's rank is what rank does one get to call themselves a Grandmaster.

    Modern Arnis has many orgs it does due to the system's belt ranks. The FMA styles that don't have a large organizational presence are typically styles that don't issue belt ranks.
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Yes, I think that's true--it's the belt system that means one must have a specific curriculum, and that's where disagreements come in.
  7. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    If the rank cert was signed by GM Remy A Presas, I would honor it. There is one exception of one person, and their organization, but that is personal between him and I. The students of another organization, could train with me, no problem, and if they were looking for rank (* Rare as I (we) am (are) an independant *) I would work with them until they had our curriculum, and I would expect that most of the others would be the same. Although I obviously cannot speak for them.
  8. Datu Dieter

    Datu Dieter Junior Member

    H Arnisador,

    good effort to name the essence of the different groups in one sentence.
    Please allow me to elaborate a little on the Modern Arnis of the DAV:
    W do not combine Modern Arnis and Kombatan, because Kombatan was founded 6 years after we left Ernesto.
    What we combine in the DAV is the "old" Modern Arnis of Remy of the 70s (which is what Erensto taught at that time) with the "new" Modern Arnis of Remy of the 90s. There is also a lot of Tapi-Tapi as well as classical Arnis with blade elements. A good deal of knife work as well, not so much groundwork, if you mean working on the ground and not bringing to the ground.

    But this is no critizism in what you wrote only a little more detailed insight in what and how we teach our Modern Arnis program in the DAV.

    Regards and merry christmas

    Dieter Knüttel
  9. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Thanks for adding that detail! I knew I was greatly over-simplifying, but I know that I can never remember when Kombatan was formalized.
  10. kruzada

    kruzada Punong Guro

    The IMAFP Senior Masters have integrated techniques and weapon categories, into their curriculum, from different FMA styles that were not originally part of the Modern Arnis curriculum.

    They also teach Dumog groundwork along with their Mano Mano, and they teach GM Remy's Tapi-Tapi.

    -Rich Acosta
  11. monkey

    monkey -== Banned ==-


    dumogaton or dumog is not new for you to intergrade into the art!
    Remy cleary tells & shows some it in every video!
    the locks-holds ect or wrestling is not new!
    i beleave Inosanto was the 1st to coin dumog in 1980 & soon it spred & all wanted to do it!
  12. kruzada

    kruzada Punong Guro

    Don't get rude with me. Calm down and conduct yourself like a gentleman. You hold high rank in MA if memory serves properly. Treat me with the same respect that you would like me and others in this forum to give to you.

    If you didn't know, using exclamation points makes it seem like you are screaming your point. You don't see me screaming back at you, do you? That is because what I say might reflect IMAFP, and everyone in my system in either a good or bad light. Aren't you worried what people in this forum will think of you and your branch of MA?

    Back to your point, I never claimed that Dumog was new, or that IMAFP was the only branch of Modern Arnis practicing Dumog.

    I simply stated that IMAFP integrated Dumog "Groundwork" into their Modern Arnis curriculum. Everyone in the FMA world knows some stand up Dumog techniques, but to my knowledge, the other Modern Arnis orgs. do not emphasize Dumog "Groundwork" and the original purpose of the thread was to highlight what is different in the curriculum of the various MA organizations. I believe Jeff Delaney has integrated some BJJ ground grappling into his MA, but I don't believe he claims this to be based on GM Remy's Dumog.

    Rich Acosta
    Chief Instructor
    Kuntaw Kali Kruzada

  13. eskrimador

    eskrimador New Member

    Happy new Year.

    I think, all MA practitioners have common things, such as the 12 striking points, blocking approach, disarming with stick or unarmed, forms, sinawali system, etc. Here in RP MA practitioners have differences mainly due to differences in objectives such as preserving the 70s style of MA, the propagation of Tapi-Tapi, Sports Arnis, and some evolving subsystem of MA. But differences mainly of personal things and some politics are the most issue with regards to MA practitioners. But whether become as one entity or many tribes, these practitioners will keep and proudly hoist the banner of Modern Arnis.
  14. Companyman

    Companyman New Member

    The AAA has a structured belt system the works on basic martial arts stances, techniques, etc, thru the first two belt levels Yellow/green... at blue they are introduced to the Bo or long staff, to learn how to let a weapon find its own path. At Red belt level they are introduced to the Baston and taught basic stick techniques, Strikes/blocks, locks and submissions, footwork, etc. then add espada & daga in the advanced levels.

    In the mid 70's when the Professor first came to the USA, he was encouraging already proficient martial artists to incorporate the Modern Arnis techniques into their respective systems, and thereby "blend" the splendid arnis techniques with good basic martial arts foundations.

    In our case, the "blend" became the American Arnis Association, and the resulting courses became the templates for DTACT and other law enforcement special tactics. My number one student, Dr. Vecchi, now is an instructor at the FBI academy in Quanico, VA.

    Each student took away different goals and each "blended" their instruction with the Professor into their own basic systems. As one earlier put it, it was the "old way" that the Professor first taught when in the mid 70's and was freshly in the US, in Fresno, CA.
  15. eskrimador

    eskrimador New Member

    That is inherent to the nature and attitude of MA. Blending to keep on being MODERN. If we examine the life of Prof. Remy, he blends in the turbulent changes in Martial Arts from 70's up to his late years. So we can expect more subsystem to develop from those existing organizations of Modern Arnis.
  16. Companyman

    Companyman New Member

    I hope that is the case. Being trapped inside a fixed, inflexable system that doesn't allow for expansion and freedom to create, would be counter to the Professor's original premise.
    A short story...
    I had the pleasure of working with the Professor for two years when he was in Fresno, and put on his first classes in the US at Jerry Greathouse's House of Gung Fu. Tim Berg was working with Sifu Greathouse, and Bruce Juchnic was the professor's teaching assistant. After moving back to Iowa, ten years later, around 1986, we got the professor to put on a Seminar in Jefferson, Iowa. I was so pleased that I would be able to show him how I had progressed, and all I had learned in adapting what I had learned to our system. What I hadn't counted on, (silly me) was that while I was changing, adapting and learning... the Professor was doing the same thing. He had new and unique techniques that he had developed and practiced. The result was that again, I was still the student and still learning. I owe the professor my career, and many law enforcement officers owe their lives and well-being to what the Professor brought to us.

    Larry Sloan
  17. 408kali

    408kali Member

    Hi all!

    Hi eskrimador, just wanted to touch on what you mentioned regarding the 12 strikes, and

    my experience which others might like to share their experience also.

    I started my FMA's with 12-strike modified Inayan Serrada method.

    After that I'm a beginning student of the Garimot system which comprises (besides Buno

    and Hilot) Arnis De Mano. From what I understand, Arnis De Mano as taught in the

    Garimot system is made up of components of several systems combined, but so far I am

    learning Largo. My Guro, Andrew Ma has informed me that in the system are methods for

    all ranges: Largo, Medio, and Corto range. What I am learning is a 5-strike method of what

    strikes me as a classical, very traditional Largo form of Arnis. What I have been shown

    outside of the Garimot system with regards to Largo Mano was similar, but most definitely

    condensed and stripped of its classical movement. I have found it challenging to

    transition from Serrada 12-strike to Largo 5-strike classical, but I'm working on methods of

    dealing with the challenge. Another thing that comes to mind is the DeCuerdas system

    which has like 40 or more strikes! So just to share my perspective, I also thought that

    most systems comprised of 5 or 12 strikes but specifically within the Garimot system

    there are many more strikes taught as the student advances.

    To note I am also a student of Eskrima Serrada under IESA which also has 12 basic

    strikes, but to my understanding there are more which are also taught as the student

    advances. BUT I consider myself a beginning student with a hunger to learn more about

    FMA's and so this, along with what I've been taught, is the basis of my understanding.

    I myself have alot to learn, and am enjoying the experience!

    Peace, ~John.
  18. jus_dann

    jus_dann New Member

    garimot? is that with Guro Abon"garimot" Baet?

    if so, great man, awsome instructor, and a fine system in my book!

  19. jus_dann

    jus_dann New Member

    anyone know anything about the IPMAF or the IMAFP orgs?

    just curious and somewhat trying to stay on topic

  20. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    There are threads in the Modern Arnis area, including this one and this one and this one!

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