Discussion in 'Modern Arnis' started by The Game, Jun 18, 2008.
Some interesting comments in there this month. S'all I can say. Wow.
Here's the link
I've read most of it. I liked Grandmaster Pallen's article and the background articles on the Presas children. What do you find interesting?
I skimmed it. One part I noticed was the comment about how only a few of the Senior Masters were legit. Some of the articles seemed to have a lot of anger in them, some seemed more relaxed to me. I'll have to reread it more carefully when I have some time to devote to it.
Interesting read with some good facts.
But like everybody else, there are different truths, different realities.
The Presas family certainly has their point of view of what happened and they are trying to transport this view as the only truth.
But it is not.
Other people have others. GM Remy met many people and there is nobody, who can claim the sole leadership in Modern Arnis in the world any more.
And hardly anybody actually does.
We all try to do our share, that GM Remy and his Modern Arnis will not be forgotten.
Just one little thing to think about:
If family was so important to GM Remy as it is written there, why did GM Remy never try to contact his wife and kids during his multiple visits to the Philippines in the late 90s? Why did he not meet them and trained with them? And I know he did not.
I do respect Remy Jr. for giving up his academic career to teach Modern Arnis instead, but he is only the leader for Modern Arnis in MARPPIO, not for all the other Modern Arnis practitioners in the world.
Datu of Modern Arnis
And some facts are just not true.
I have seen the 9th Dan certificate of GM Christino Vasquez, signed by G Remy Presas.
Actually, I even have a copy of this here on my computer.
So it is not correct, that Jerry, Rodel, Vic and Roland were the only ones who got 8th Dan or higher from GM Remy.
As to the best of my knowledge, GM Rene Tongson got 8th Dan from GM Remy as well.
Also Remy never trained Doce Pares, he did not learn with his father but grandfather etc.
These are only a few examples, that not all fact are correct here and that the Presas family is not aware of everything, that GM Remy Presas has done, for they had no communication with him for more than 25 years. (exept Demetrio who met his father 3 times in those 25 years).
The facts are not straight. You cannot change history, even if you try.
Datu of Modern Arnis
Dieter et al,
The article by Remy's Grandson Carlosmagna I believe had at least an error or unknown untruth there are well. The article stated that Remy was the first to use the 12 strikes. Balintawak an art he studied with Moncal, Maranga and Bacon all taught and used the 12 strikes. Of course the orders are changed, which fits with what I have been told Anciong told Remy. "Remy, if teach and it is not the same as I do then do not call it Balintawak." Remy told me he changed the order out of respect.
I agree that we should try to keep history history. I watched an HBO special that stated "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." This is about what people believe and if enough think it is so, then print and it becomes so.
That being said, I am glad the family is continuing with the art. It is good that they are still trying to get out there. I wish them well.
Interview with Rosemary Presas
Interesting comments. Correct me if I'm wrong but, where was Remy P. Presas from 1990 until 2001?
Ah, he was the first student, but was trained by Jerry Dela Cruz and Rodel Dagooc. Remy Sr. left the PI when Remy Jr. was in 5th grade, which would put him at about 10 or 11 at the time. How much contact did he have with his father from then until 2001, to learn first hand where his father was taking the art? Also during this time Arnis was a secondary priority as he was going to school which is a time consuming thin in itself.
Why would Modern Arnis be his? Because he's Remy Sr.'s son?
Maybe, but shouldn't the leader of a system know the full system and it's history?
In his own interview, Remy Jr. states that Datu = 6th degree. An odd statement since Datu David Hoffman is only listed as a 5th degree in Modern Arnis, and Datu Jornales has no rank in Modern Arnis that I'm aware of. Also, if 6th = Datu, wouldn't that make Dan Anderson a Datu? Now there is an interesting topic. Super Datu Dan. :rofl: So, which is it?
Now Dr. Presas makes the comment about the family not recognizing or promoting anyone until they can demonstrate they know the art. That's great. Can they demonstrate mastery of the way Modern Arnis was taught the last 10 years of GM Remy's life in the US or just what it was like in the PI prior to his leaving there? Which version are they masters of?
Now, I say and ask this not to knock Remy Jr. I've seen his videos, and he's from all accounts a decent guy looking to keep his fathers dream alive. I can't fault that, and wish him the best of luck in doing so. But. Here's that but thing. But, having read through novels on forums and talked to countless high level North American and European Arnisadors, who all have said basically the same things as far as history of the art goes, why would the families chosen head, basically be wrong on such points? Does he know, or is this the way they want it to be, and are bothered that so many others won't line up and toe the line, and pay the dues?
The genie is out of the bottle, and it won't ever go back in. Sorry.
Trust me. I have more to say here, but this is enough to chew on for the moment.
Almost everybody uses 12 strikes, it seems! Certainly this goes at least back to Doce Pares?
Same here. It's all good!
GM Presas's will was brought up on MartialTalk. As I'm lazy, I'm reposting my post from there here.
One version of the will which was discussed here in late 2003 stated:
Of course, this is disputed by the familys statement of "My father, GM Remy A. Presas, died intestate (without a will) according to a lawyer from Victoria, Canada, whom I quote in his letter to us, “On the joint instructions of Randy Schea, and Yvette Wong, we prepared a new will for your father to sign. Unfortunately, when we attended at his bedside he was in no condition to understand or appreciate the nature of his actions, and we were not able to witness his execution. The result is that your father has died intestate (without a will)." which was made by Demetrio Presas.
The joys of conflicting legal systems.
I have a question.
Who was the person who was at the funeral who asked the family to recognize him as Grandmaster?
I think Dr. Remy purposely left the name out to protect the reputation of a long time practitioner, so even though I'm just as curious about it as you are, we should probably leave that subject alone. Funerals are very emotional and stressful times, and you don't always use your best judgement in the brain-mouth connection.
It was people from the PI.
Continuing reading the articles, Demetrio comes across well, and Carlomango very level headed and knowledgeable. I'm sorry but unfortunately Rosemary came across as angry, bitter, and unaware of much of what went on outside the PI. Remy Jr. wants to be seen as the head of Modern Arnis, but even admits that he's still getting up to speed with it.
Does anyone know the ranks and promotion histories of the family?
The only one I could find was Carlomagno, listed as a 3rd in Modern Arnis and a 1st in Sikaran.
I got a link from someone on MT but it doesn't list any family ranks and the bios also omit that information.
So with all of the posts about the Presas edition of FMA Digest I decided to call Junior myself to hear what he had to say. We talked about some of the posts that have surfaced on the net, his mother’s statement as well as what his position is. I think that there is a problem with perception. I think that we must separate what Junior’s organization is doing versus what his father did.
When we ended the conversation I had mixed feeling of anger and disappointment! During our conversation I was shocked by a racist statement that came from Junior that since that I wasn’t Filipino that I would never amount to much as an FMA instructor! This isn’t the first time I’ve been exposed to this type of behavior, although I was appalled that it came from the son of my teacher and adopted father.
I shouldn’t be concerned with Junior’s perception of things. What matters most to me is what GM Remy thought. It is clear in my mind how Remy felt about me. When Joseph, his youngest son was born, Remy asked me to teach Joseph if anything happened to him. Further more, I was included in his will as one of the people he chose to continue his art. I think that it speaks volumes that his children were not part of his list.
While doing some Google Splunkin, I found this nugget which might contradict Dr. Presas's comments on what a Datu is in regards to not just Filipino's, but Modern Arnis.
Who am I to argue with Master Roland Dantes and Kelly Worden?
What can't be changed
Modern Arnis was created by the Presas family
The Presas family is still alive and has expressed themselves and no one on this stupid forum wants to listen to them.
I can already see that it's all over for the guys who don't follow the wishes of the Presas family. Your credibility is absolutely zero now that the family has expressed itself fully on the FMA Digest.
They're not happy and want to make changes and all you guys will have to figure out what to do after that.
I find that odd considering it contradicts a comment he made at the Senkotiros Sama-Sama this year. He said something to the effect of there were two types od Filipinos practicing the arts, those that were Filipino by birth and those that were by choice.
Separate names with a comma.