Discussion in 'Modern Arnis' started by kuntaokali, Dec 28, 2006.
Can anyone explain the differances between Modern Arnis, and Balintawak ?
modern arnis has a little balintawak as i stated many months ago & was put down for it but they later saw i was correct!
modern arnis has karate in it as well as some of wally jays small circle & depending on when you joined it could havve kuntau or dilmans pressure point knock outs!
moder arnis kept exspanding to the point of extra ordinary!
balintawak is a rare style that has been in the philippines & has many tribale rites!it is an honor & great benifate to learn it from Grandmaster Toboda!Bobby is realy smooth!Ramond passed many years ago & is sadly missed!They are & were other masters & they become great arnisadoors!
I think everyone would agree with this--at least, everyone who studied in the States, where the SCJJ was added. Balintawak and the Presas family style were the base arts, and (Shotokan) Karate was added.
Yes, though especially the DKI was a relatively small influence, I think.
As to the differences between Balintawak and Modern Arnis...I'm no expert in the former, but I understand it to be principally or wholly (depending on the lineage) a single-stick, weapons-only, close-quarters stick-fencing art. Modern Arnis is meant to be a more general self-defense system.
Others will surely disagree with me!
Thats how I envision the differences as well...but I'd be interested to hear the input of someone that does disagree.
I have to disagree with the the term and issue of Tribal Rites. I know of no family branch that has mentioned this to date.
GM Remy Presas studied with GM Moncal and then GM Maranga and then GM Bacon in Balintawak when he went to Cebu.
Modern Arnis is a part of the family system as well as Balintawak and as others have stated Ju-Jitsu or SCJJ, and it also has some Karate in particular the empty hand forms.
Balintawak depending upon the family tree has knife and empty hand in the curriculum. This is fine as it comes from the teachings of the stick. So have chosen to make it an official part of the system while others show it and let the student practice on thier own, unless of course they ask for more training empty handed.
If you have specific questions we might be able to answer that might be easier.
I would have to agree that the DKI was only part of the seminars when GM Presas and Dillman and Wally Jaye were all teaching at one time. I never saw a testing requirement be it local or at a seminar camp that included DKI pressure points.
As to Tribal Rites I have not seen or heard of any such from any of the families of Balintawak.
Can you provide evidence?
Balintawak instructors do get branded on their hands so to speak....
Thank you for confirmation of the branding on the hand !
Too many americans only want to see & hear of their little click & wont see beyound the totaly of the art!
The founders were not Amereican to begin with!
The founders had their own little rites if you will!
Yes I used RITES!!!!!!
it is part of their way of life!it is not a week end or 3 times a week or go to seminars for them!
They are raised with it!
So they carry the mark!!!
Could you explain further please?
I understand the htis to the hands, but an actual Brand? Which family tree?
I've deleted two posts from this thread. Let's keep it professional!
I know history wise it had a back round in 1920's Labongon Fencing Club & the Saaveda family & Conete family made the Doce Pares club from one point of veiw!
I never heard of branding, but I know some guys have balintawak tattoos on their chests. Also in the velez line some of the practicioners have a tattoo on the thumb. I'm interested to know more about the branding though.
A thumb tattoo? Sounds like a target for your opponent to use to disarm you!
It's not a brand, it's a tattoo on their thumb.
Velez lineage instructors get it to show brotherhood/instructorship...
Sort of like a fraternity type thing.
I guess this can be called a "tribal rite."
I don't know if I would go so far as to call it a "tribal rite," it's more a a brotherhood/kinship ritual if anything. I'm pretty sure it doesn't date back to anything tribal.
I have noticed the tattoo on a few different instructors from the velez lineage and when I put it together I asked them about it.
I agree Peter...
Most people like to attach the word tribal to bring their systems closer to the "original source."
If you look at it, all FMA stems from some tribal source due to the Philippines being a tribal nation especially prior to Spanish colonization.
The "tribes" developed into groups/clubs/brotherhoods, hence the original Doce Pares.
Its the history Im intersetd in gettting down!
Let's say a new person joins Balintawak & the only history is Bobby Tobosa!
Well some one will ask in time who tought him & that teacher & what is the family tree!
Dose it continue in the family as their art or is a club?
Did it have lineage befor 1920's fencing club & the familys made the Doce Pares!They always cerlibrate the Elcortez being defeated by Lapu Lapu & that is a tribal ritual passed down!
I appreciate your interest in the truth of Balintawak's history.
Unfortunately, it may be a fruitless endeavor.
Every group will have their own version of their own history.
Some people have a propensity to lie, forget things, or rearrange history to fit their stories. It would be wrong to discredit anyone unless you have some solid proof.
This is not proprietary to Balintawak/FMA, it exists in all human beings.
It exists in all styles regardless of origin.
But this is what keeps FMA lively. We squabble, fight, make up, and become friends.
Not to say historical research is completely pointless, but the best I can tell you is listen to all versions and make your own logical conclusion.
Then train harder in your search for combat than in history.
HISTORY for me is not the major point in the art!
For me it is did the founders fight & or use it in real combat or defence?
I know the Conyetes are well known for not backing down to any challange!
They have many scars & great teachings!
I will never say any other arts can't compair!
How ever I will say i ran into many so call ninjas but turned out to be fake!
I know Balintawak has great masters & founders as the art stood the test of time!
I have seen arts come & go!That alone is a testiment of power & honor &
great lineage of the art!
It would be nice to see a historical book--even if its a magazine type to tell of its links to the 1920's fencing club ect!
That alone is great history!
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