Mga Sandata Ng Pagkakataon.

Discussion in 'Lameco' started by Guro Dave Gould, Sep 26, 2010.

  1. Guro Dave Gould


    Hi guys,

    In the Lameco Eskrima Curriculum, Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite specialized in weapons of opportunity (Mga Sandata Ng Pagkakataon). This portion of the curriculum was touched on from beginner level to advanced level but really emphasized in great detail as one promotes into the Instructor Rankings of our system.

    Mga Sandata Ng Pagkakataon focussed primarily on 5 weapons of opportunity in specific, but covered anything that one could place in the human hand in ones time of need. Those primary weapons of opportunity are listed as follows:

    Susi (Key): This was primarily a large jagged house or car key, but it also touched on finger knives such as the "Cock Spur", "Karambit", "Church Key" and "Finger Nail File".

    Bato (Rock): This was an average sized rock or brick in specific but over the years I have also trained with a billiard ball, ash tray, beer mug or any other item found in ones immediate environment with the potential to become an impact weapon.

    Payong (Bandana): We primarily trained with head scarfs and bandanas but Punong Guro Sulite would also have us train with plastic bags, t`shirts, belts and electrical chords.

    Boteyla (Bottle): Beer bottles and soda bottles were the norm but we were taught to fight with them intact as an impact weapon and also to break the neck off and fight with it as an edged weapon.

    Patalim (Pointy Object): This was anything with a sharp point on it that could be found in ones immediate environment such as and Ink Pen, Ice Pick, Chisel, Screw Driver or a piece of wood lying on the graound with a point to it.

    The question is how many of you really put forth an effort to not only identify weapons of opportunity but rather physically train with them to profiency in order to evaluate and become knowlewdgeable of any inherent strengths or weakness` attached to each one?

    I look forward to each comment, ciao.

    Guro Dave Gould.
  2. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member


    While I don't train with a lot of miscellaneous objects there are a few that I've reached for in the past:

    pencils and pens: generally with the point extending about 1/4" past my thumb
    keys: the same
    AA Maglite: generally with the butt extending about an inch past the pinkie side of my fist, with my thumb on the opposite side; I'd hit with the thumb knuckle if I was going to hit on the thumb side of my fist.
    screw drivers: generally for pakal thrusts (thumb on butt) but occasionally with the handle butted up against my palm and the stem projecting out under my thumb. Sometimes I'll put the stem under my middle finger but I find that the grip is tenuous at best. (Some Xing Yi players have a little tool that extends about an inch past the middle finger that can be used to similar, gruesome effect but it has a little ring on it that keeps it tight to your hand. This way you can poke with the pointy end but slap with the iron bar against your palm as well.)
    small wrenches: generally with the pointy ends on the pinkie side of my fist and the socket side on the thumb side.
    large wrenches: generally as a short stick held in a hammer grip
    axe: I find these a little heavy to swing around but they work nicely as two-hand (i.e. pugil stick style) sticks.

    I think that it's just natural to reach out for force multipliers whenever they're available. I was blindsided once in college by a big, dumb jock who thought it was just hilarious to tackle an unsuspecting passerby just for the hell of it. His friends pulled me off pretty quick when I reversed him and found a nice softball-sized rock on the ground to brain him with...

    Usually I'll train some of these from time to time doing Kaj sets or Pekiti Abcedario de Mano on a hanging Big Green Man dummy. If I want to hit a little harder I'll substitute a wooden dowel with round ends as pointy ends tend to rip the stuffing out of the dummy.


  3. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    I have been interested in the use of flexible weapons for some time now, especially the bandana type, but other similar in nature,too. However, after some experimenting and training, I tend to use them more as a whipping-type weapons than for some more elaborate wrapping approach techniques, although I did develop some commend over a few of those as well.

    When it comes to other mentioned objects, I like to run things as "universal" as possible, hence my affinity for using most of them in a "reverse grip" manner, just like I prefer to use my hands in a hammerfist fashion. It allows for some quick and easy transfer of lines and angles to any weapon at hand.
  4. Guro Dave Gould


    Hi guys,

    In Lameco Eskrima not only do we find it important to identify weapons of opportunity, we attempt to get hands on experience with each weapon of opportunity that can be found in our immediate environment. I regularly spar with my students with rocks, umbrellas, tennis racquets, axe handles, Ink Pens, extension chords, two-by-fours picked up from the ground and anything else that I feel would fall into the category of weapons of opportunity. I will allow my students to arm themselves with a stick, knife, sword or just come at me empty handed, just so I can familiarize myself with the advatages and disadvantages associated with each object that may find itself in my hand in my time of need.

    It is a different world when you are getting attacked with a knife, machete or stick and all that you are armed with is a small rock. Only by experiencing it first hand will you be adequately prepared to deal with this reality should it become your reality one day. Experience speaks with a loud resounding voice and finds weakness or strength, advantage or disadvantage where it was not obvious before when governed only by judgement and speculation.

    Guro Dave Gould.
  5. chfroehlich

    chfroehlich Junior Member


    during my past training I tried several other objects rather than sticks and knives only.

    Being attacked with keys in between the fingers during my time as a bouncer I know about the danger of it. I tried it myself but found it not very comfortable for me; but rarely, when my knife or any other weapon of choice is not available, I get back to my carkeys between my fingers.

    I tried the Karambit as well (training with my Guro Wolfgang Mueller and Tuhon Ray Dionaldo), but found it, like Guro Dave stated in another thread, limited to slashing and lacking distance. I don't want to be limited to slashing and don't want to loose that little distance that can be of importance in a fight, so it stays in my drawer.

    Never trained with a rock, but it's something I definitly will have to test.

    Bandana - Belt - Sarong was first introduced to me by the late Larry Hartsell, than by Tuhon Ray Dionaldo and Guro Felix Valencia.
    I don't like the locking with the Bandana, because I myself couldn't feel the pain. Sifu Larry Hartsell showed me some moves to do when locking failed which I very liked. Guro Felix showed me the same moves PG Sulite is demonstrating on Practical Self Defense Vol 1. I for myself find them hard to do in the moment of combat, because to me they are very complex; maybe (or surely) I lack the fine motor skills.

    The bottle is something I like to show women, because most of them have a drinking bottle with them while jogging. I convert the Kubotan/Dulo techniques with a bottle and it works very well.

    Same with pointy objects. I train with pens, screwdrivers and Icepicks. Right in the moment Self-defense-pens are very popular everywhere in the world. Almost every major knife company is producing one and Boker Germany is hosting Jim Wagner doing a Self-Defense-Pen-Seminar and producing a Self-Defense-Pen (which I haven't seen by now). I own several, but I don't think that someone has to have a special SD-Pen because all sturdy pens make a very good SD weapon.

    I for myself like the MCMAP "One Mind, All Weapons"-Mindset. If you're mindset is right, you can turn almost everything in a weapon. If you're the unlucky bastard who looses his weapon during a fight, there is no such thing as giving up or surrendering. Go and get the thing available next to you and use it against your enemy. Train with that in mind and scan your surrounding the next time while training. And if you're weapon is taken away by your training partner or you drop it, go and get what is available. Get your backup-knife or anything else in reaching distance.

    My training partners often laugh about me if I do this, but I learn not to stop in a friendly envoirment. And hopefully I don't stop while in combat.


  6. geezer

    geezer Member

    Guro Dave, this is a great topic, one that applies to FMA training in general, not just the Lameco system. I hope you don't mind if I take this idea over to the "General" sub-forum. --Steve
  7. RickSwe

    RickSwe New Member

    Great and interesting topic. I train with some improvised weapons, but this topic gives me new ideas that I will tryout.

    One favorite is the rock. With the right size you can carry it with you. And I like to smash every limb that the opponent gives out. I also practice to throw the rock at the opponent to either to close in our escape. This depends on what the weapon the opponent use. For example if he has a longer weapon I may throw it at him and rush in. If he carries a small weapon, I smash everything I can. In general how I use my improvised weapons depends on what my enemy have, long short etc and how he use it.

    As for swining Weapons. I also like to put a locker on a bandana, to swing it. Or use a weapon sling or belt. But I think most belts and slings are to light to do any real damage. But I use it more as a distraction or blocking tool and to get close for choking.

    I have practice to using a cup, throw the coffee/tee in the face and either chin jab ala W.E Fairbairn or hold it in the ears and smash it.

    I Like sturdy pens to, ice picks, screwdrivers and similar. But a very nice weapon which I like is the hawk, or axe, which I practice with. Very devastating, I really like the small axe. I also practice with baseball bat and steel pipes. And it gives a good workout to.

    A question I have; do Lameco use projectiles or practice to throw objects?

    Be well,

  8. Guro Dave Gould



    Hello, thanks for your response. The idea of carrying a padlock on the end of a bandana has been a long time weapon for gangbangers here in California, when you see someone fitting the profile of a gangbanger hanging out in front of a licquor store with a bandana hanging out of their pocket there is alway a good chance that it will have a padlock attached to it.

    As for weapon slings, belts, electrical chords, bandanas, plastic bags and t`shirts in Lameco Eskrima their primary designation as a weapon is to assist one in managing a knife or machete attack, if found to be unarmed. Their secondary weapon designation is to lock, choke, or take down ones opponent. A third designation is to use them as a distraction whereby Punong Guro Sulite would "pop" the corner of the bandana into the eyes of his opponent until he could secure a choke, lock or take down while he gained access to his knife or another weapon of opportunity found lying on the ground such as a rock or brick. He would use a plastic bag or a news paper to conceal his knife until he was close enough to launch an unexpected knife attack on his enemy or he would use the plastic bag to place over the head of his opponent with the intention to suffocate him or at the very least distract him until he could deploy his knife, he would also twist the plastic bag up to use it to disarm a knife attack.

    As for projectile weapons, Punong Guro Sulite would advocate throwing smaller rocks, but if he found a nice sized rock or brick that was of adequate size to be used as an impact weapon he would keep it in hand as he did not want to give a weapon to his opponent if his opponent already did not have one. when I was brought into South Korea to train elements of R.O.K. Military one of the things which I saw them doing during down time was throwing metal "Chop Sticks" which can be found all over korea at any restaraunt or home. The R.O.K. soldiers would take the metal "Chop Sticks" and sharpen the ends and have throwing competitions for leisure. They invited me to give it a try and I got fairly accurate with them over the period of a couple of weeks or so, but those guys whom had been doing it all of their lives were both accurate and deadly with them within 10 to 20 yards.

    Guro Dave Gould.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2010

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