Kombatan Entry on MartialTalk MartialArts Encyclopedia

Discussion in 'Kombatan' started by Bob Hubbard, Jan 16, 2006.

  1. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Darth Vindicatus Supporting Member

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    MTMAE Entries:
    Ernesto Presas
  2. KombatanNYC

    KombatanNYC New Member

    Kombatan Resource

    For a credible source regarding Kombatan, it's history and info regarding schools etc, you can visit www.kombatankc.com or contact Guro Shelly Millspaugh @ kombatankc@yahoo.com. Shelly is the Chief Instructor of the Midwest for IPMAF (International Philippine Martial Arts Federation). Unfortunately, due to some administrative changes, the main website is not available at this time.
  3. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    The Kombatan entry needs a lot of work!
  4. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Darth Vindicatus Supporting Member

    Right now, this is all we have.
  5. armas

    armas Junior Member

    Kombatan is the result of more than 30 years of GM Ernesto Presas Sr.'s research. Kombatan consists of doble baston, Espada y daga, solo baston, Dos Puntas, Tres Puntas, bankaw, daga sa daga (knife work), dulo dulo (palmstick) and Mano mano. The curriculum consists of Classical arnis systems (Hirada Batanguena, Ocho-ocho, Force to force abanico Doblada, Palis palis doblete, and sungkiti-tutsada tuslak) and Modern Arnis. The major drills of Kombatan are Palit-Palit(Palitan or give and take) and Tapi-tapi (freestyle sparring)these drills develop coordination of hand, eye and feet, sensitivity, speed, power, respect of distance and most importantly flow. Once proficient in Kombatan the practitioner or arnisador is expected to personalize the system of Kombatan to suit the arnisador's body type. Because the students learn an extensive array of weaponry the arnisador can specialize later as he matures in the art of Kombatan.

    Hope this helps.
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I don't fully understand the distinction drawn between Classical and Modern Arnis in Kombatan. What are some examples of what is considered Modern, but not Classical, Arnis?
  7. armas

    armas Junior Member

    Modern Arnis is a stick oriented art. For us Classical arnis is a blade oriented art or most of them are blade oriented. Other differences are 1.)the catching or grabbing of the stick(sunggab). 2.) Locking techniques(trankada), 3.) throwing techniques (hagis), releasing techniques/stick retention/police techniques(pagkalas sa nang-aagaw ng baston), 4.) Disarming techniques using the stick(agaw baston). The main goal of Modern Arnis is effectivity, flow of not only in movement. But flow from the use of Modern arnis techniqes combined with the classical strikings and priciples. Flow from one weapon to another. This is what we call Modern arnis techniques. Before the Presas Brothers introduce this not many arts had such discoveries. Even now in the Philippines it is not recognized to grab the stick. It is considered a mortal sin. But once they( the other systems practioner) are proven wrong they accept that it is good. I have had many of these discussions and encounters in the Philippines. I get many detractors saying that the above techniques are included in their own classical system. As time evolves the masters figure out or reach the same hypothesis. That they can make their art more effective. But to us before the old arnis did not have this.
  8. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    OK, that helps! I did know that many arts don't grab the stick, in part because it may always represent a sword.
  9. armas

    armas Junior Member

    I just felt that it would not be respectful for both Modern Arnis and Kombatan's issues to be in wikipedia (dispute about the name). We should put something that discribes Kombatan as an art and not the dispute that's why it becamed name that way. Kombatan has many names as it evolved from Modern arnis de mano to arnis Presas style to Kombatan. I prefer not to see any issues about what happened between the two brothers. Past is past. And their issues are not what makes kombatan different from Modern arnis. I hope whoever made such definition of Kombatan realized this in the first place. Let's be mature about this. Is there anyway this definition of Kombatan of Wikipedia can be changed? It is an insult to the founder of Kombatan.
  10. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    It's true that many of us who were under Remy Presas are a bit 'defensive' about the Modern Arnis name. But, accuracy is important, and Ernesto Presas used the name too, and downplays it now principally as a courtesy to his (late) brother, as I understand it. I don't see any problem with stating the facts!

    Anyone can edit the Wikipedia entries--no registration is required. It's nice to have Martialpedia match (except where it's more extensive). Go ahead and edit the WP entry and see what happens!
  11. Brother John

    Brother John New Member

    PLease help me understand...
    are you saying that these elements are NOT w/in the Kombatan system??
    Thank you

    Your Brother
  12. johnzag

    johnzag Junior Member

    All of those elements are part of Kombatan and Modern Arnis.. They were not part of the classical systems which were blade orientated and not stick orientated.
  13. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    So, the classical refers to the blade-oriented systems, according to two posters. I get it!
  14. johnzag

    johnzag Junior Member

    Read the Wikipedia entry on Kombatan only seems to have mentioned the Masters from the states as major players. Very few Instructors in IPMAF outside of the states are listed for example in Australia the following would be considered major players;

    Master Andy Elliott (Chief Instructor of Australia)
    Master Michael Darcy (NSW)
    Master Chris Traish (NSW)
    Guro Kevin Smith (WA)
    Guro Giovanni Zagari (VIC)
    Guro Mark Day (VIC)

    Not to mention other coutries such as Sweden where you have;

    Senior Master Johan Skalsberg (who is one of the highest ranked westerners in Kombatan).

    Also dont know if we should mention in the description of the art that it came about due to a falling out between the brothers Ernesto and Remy. I think that it's probably bad form towards both great grand masters.
  15. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Yes, maybe it shouldn't be mentioned in the first paragraph, though I think it's only fair to include it somewhere. Good or bad, this is an encycolpedia we're discussing.

    Please add the other masters though! We can sync up the Martialpedia entry later.
  16. armas

    armas Junior Member

    johnzag is right. I am sorry. All the above aspects are in the curriculum modern arnis which is a part of Kombatan. Hope this helps.
  17. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    People keep adding and removing names on the list of well-known practitioners at the Wikipedia entry...I wish someone in the know could edit that list!
  18. armas

    armas Junior Member

    I wish we had the full spectrum of instructors from all over. But they come and go.

    Now for John. I am sorry sometimes I keep on babbling.
    Stick Orientation includes all the stick catching/grabbing, disarms, locks, releasing techniques,etc.

    The classical systems don't always necessarily mean they are all bladed orientation. Hirada and Sungkiti are bladed orientation.
    Force to force abanico doblada and Palis palis are more stick orientation classical arnis used in largo/medio range.

    Johnzag, I did not say these aspects are only Kombatan. Kombatan is GM Ernesto's Modern arnis as it has evolved differently.
  19. johnzag

    johnzag Junior Member

    Neither did I.. If you see my post earlier I mentioned that the catching, disarming etc is part of both Kombatan and Modern Arnis.. which is essentially two brothers take on the same art anyway ;)

    Interesting to see that you think doblete and doblada are not meant to be "bladed" actions but rather were created with the stick in mind.
  20. armas

    armas Junior Member

    I know someone here would comment on that. If you use doblada it is kinda acceptable with the force to force and Palis. But Doblete is not that great. I have seen GM's and Masters use it on a blade. It is not as effective as you might think. When it comes to blade keep it simple. Always GM Ernesto's rule. But sometimes he gets carried away using these circular movements with his blade. It is actually better if you try hitting an object and see if it will work. Watch out with the blade. If you do it in a banana tree(I know we don't have them here or that many) it will stick. There goes the flow of your technique. If you do in on a bag with a stick you have to learn to hit it right. Here I go again. Getting to technical. Just my 2 cents. I am not an Final authority. It is based on my experience. I share my experience only.

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