Knives for good

Discussion in 'Dog Brothers Martial Arts' started by Crafty Dog, Dec 26, 2009.

  1. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    Woof All:

    We all know how knives can be used for evil and stupidity. This thread is for reports of knives being used to the good.

    Crafty Dog
    Woman fatally knifes thug in subway attack, then flees on F train

    BY Kerry Burke and John Lauinger
    Friday, December 25th 2009, 1:33 AM

    Several thugs tried to drag a woman off a Queens subway train Thursday night, but she fought back and fatally stabbed one of her tormenters before fleeing on another train, police said. The large group of men - perhaps as many as eight - surrounded the woman outside a chicken restaurant above the 21st St.-Queensbridge station about 9 p.m., police and a witness said. The harassment, which may have included unwanted sexual advances toward the woman and grabbing, continued as she entered the subway station. The woman broke free from the men and frantically ran down to the platform and hopped on an F train, with the thugs right behind.

    "They tried to physically drag her off the train, but she fights back," one cop said.

    The struggle continued as the group pulled her off the train and dragged her up the stairs to the mezzanine level. At one point, the woman stabbed one of her attackers - identified by family as Thomas Winston, 29 - multiple times in the chest. The woman then sprinted back down to the platform - with the thugs in hot pursuit, said witness Ricardo Josephs, 41.

    "Seven or eight of them were chasing the woman," said Josephs, an MTA employee. "They all jumped over the turnstiles after her. She got on the Queens [-bound F] train. They tried to grab her; they tried to hold the train - but she got away."

    Winston, who lives in a nearby shelter and has a 10-month-old daughter, was pronounced dead at a Manhattan hospital.

    The woman was still in the wind Thursday night, police said. One police source said investigators suspect the woman was acting in self-defense.

    Winston has numerous prior arrests, including several raps for sale of narcotics, most recently in September.

    Winston's aunt, Diane Greenspan, who has custody of his child, was stunned by his death.

    "It's terrible, just terrible - on Christmas Eve!" she said, despairingly.
    Stabbing in Queens Leaves Man Dead, a Girl in Flight and Families in Grief

    Published: December 25, 2009

    Erika Brown was waiting for her 16-year-old daughter to return from the chicken and pizza restaurant down the street around 9 p.m. Thursday when a man banged loudly on her door, shouting. Ms. Brown could make out only a few words — her daughter’s name, something about a man, something about a knife. Out her window, she saw a crowd gathered outside the restaurant, the scene lit with the glow of police cars.

    The painful flood of details followed as Ms. Brown ran to the restaurant. Her daughter Cyan, a high school sophomore, who everyone says looks just like her mother, had apparently been harassed while ordering food, by a group of neighborhood men who later chased her into the subway. One of the men, Thomas Winston, 29, now lay dead on the street, stabbed in the chest.

    Hours later, a frightened, tearful Cyan called her older sister, Lynnea Adams, 21, and told her that a man had tried to push himself on her, and that she had pulled out a knife.
    “She didn’t mean for that to happen, but at the same time she had to protect herself,” Ms. Adams said Friday.

    Several blocks away, Diane Greenspan spent Christmas Eve waiting for her nephew, the father of the 10-month-old baby she was raising, to come by with presents. Instead, she, too, got a call from a distraught relative, who was crying so much it took her a while to understand what he was saying. The nephew, Mr. Winston, an aspiring rapper who has been arrested numerous times on weapons and drug charges, had bled to death outside Big New York Fried Chicken & Pizza, just above the 21st Street-Queensbridge stop on the F train in Queens.

    “He said he was on his way, but he never made it,” Ms. Greenspan said Friday, her voice muted with a mix of disbelief and stoicism. “He was a person at the wrong place at the wrong time.”

    And so two families who live in public housing projects in Long Island City spent Christmas sorting through tangled accounts of an ugly fight that left a young father dead and a teenage schoolgirl on the run.

    A police spokesman said that the events began with a physical confrontation between a woman and a group of six to eight men, and that the group eventually chased the woman onto the subway platform and pulled her off of a Queens-bound F train.

    On the platform, the police said, the woman stabbed Mr. Winston in the chest, then fled, possibly getting on a Manhattan-bound F train. As of Friday evening, there had been no arrests, and the weapon had not been recovered; Ms. Brown said the police had not spoken to her or Cyan.

    Friends of Mr. Winston’s who said they witnessed the incident, however, said the stabbing took place above ground, and the girl fled into the subway station afterward, trailed by a group of men, who tried to catch her before she jumped on a train.

    Lionell Cooper, 36, a rapper who said he had recorded and performed with Mr. Winston, said he watched as Mr. Winston stumbled backward out of the chicken place, tripped over a snowbank and fell, bleeding, into the street. He stood up, fell again to all fours and then crawled a short distance, Mr. Cooper added.
    “He collapsed right here,” he said, pointing to blood stains on the street. “I got paper towels from the store and pressed them against his wound,” he added. “He just lost too much blood.”

    On Friday morning, Mr. Winston’s friends placed two cardboard boxes marked “R.I.P.” at the spot just above the entrance to the subway station where Mr. Winston had collapsed. As the day progressed, people filled them with candles, most bearing Mr. Winston’s stage name, Black Box. In the morning cold, they talked to each other of sorrow, disbelief and anger.
    “I’m not saying he was an angel,” said Waren Davis, 47. “But if he was your friend, he was your friend.”

    One woman with swollen eyes placed a candle in the box, then cleaned the trash from the piles of snow on the sidewalk. She poured hot water from coffee cups to wash away some of the blood that still stained the street.

    Back at Ms. Greenspan’s first-floor home, while Mr. Winston’s daughter giggled and played, relatives, including Mr. Winston’s grandmother, mourned a life they felt was on the mend after trouble with the law and homelessness. “He was trying to get his life together so he could get his child back,” Ms. Greenspan said.

    Several blocks away at Ms. Brown’s fifth-floor apartment, the sorrow was for a young girl’s loss of innocence and the difficult, uncertain road that lay before her. Ms. Brown and Ms. Adams said that Cyan had not had previous problems with the law, and that they did not know why she would have had a knife. They said they knew she must turn herself in, but worried the family would suffer retaliation.
    “She’s a young girl,” her sister said. “She’s a child.”

    Alain Delaquérière and Sarah Maslin Nir contributed reporting.
    NYTimes (also known as POTH: Pravda on the Hudson)
    BTW, note that the name of the reporter is that of the family that used to own the NYT/POTH. Also note the efforts at moral equivalence.

    BTW, as noted on another forum: "Queensbridge station on the F line is also the bus transfer stop for the r110 bus to rikers island, a prison. There are a lot of halfway houses in that area too."
  2. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    Interesting (although unsurprising) contrast in the articles.

    I think knives are often overlooked as a very accessible form of self-defense for women. Knives are lightweight and are relatively easy to carry, they are easy to conceal with many different clothing styles, and they can be relatively easy to transport across state lines (example: when a person lives in one state and works in another).
  3. jspeedy

    jspeedy Member

    Thanks for posting the articles Crafty!

    I consider these articles to be yet another eye opener shedding light onto the uncertainty regular people face when confronted with what they consider a fight or flight situation. Personally, i've been in unpleasant situations and at times i've opted to fight my way out. However, I can't honestly say i've ever faced a scenario where my only true options have been fight or run.

    Based on information gathered from the posted articles a girl acted in self defense when hasseled by a group of men. I can only hope the daughter of Ms. Erika Brown faces no reprocussions for her actions of self defense.

    I believe the deceased's Aunt quoted: “He was a person at the wrong place at the wrong time.” This is a severe understatement. Teenage girls just don't stab a man to death for no reason. I can only hope the other aggressors are caught and tried (fairly) and accordingly.

    I think it's a shame for anyone to feel they must kill another. I also believe it is necessary for criminals to fear their would be victims and any possible retaliation (legal or otherwise).
  4. Raw_Prime

    Raw_Prime New Member


    She's no victim, after all.
    A Queens teenager who stabbed a man to death in a subway was facing manslaughter charges Tuesday night after cops said she was to blame in the Christmas Eve fracas.
    Cyan Brown, 16, was originally portrayed as a plucky victim who stabbed Thomas Winston, 29, in self-defense after a group of men tried to attack her.
    "She was the main aggressor, without a doubt," a police source told The Daily News.
    Brown got into a shouting match with Winston after one of her male friends bumped into him on an F train at the 21st St.-Queensbridge station.
    Winston, who was with a group of pals, asked the man to apologize, setting off a confrontation that apparently spilled on to the sidewalk in front of a chicken joint.
    "You could say excuse me," the slain man said, according to cops.
    That's when Brown, who lives in the nearby Queensbridge Houses, got involved in the battle of words.
    "She takes over, gets mouthy," the source said.
    Moments later, she pulled a knife and stabbed Winston, cops said.
    "She reaches in her bag, takes out a weapon, lunges at him and cuts him," the source said.
    Winston's friends chased after Brown and tried to drag her off the F train - but she escaped.

    Witnesses told cops it appeared the teen was fleeing from a gang of aggressive men.
    Brown's mom later told reporters her daughter was protecting herself from the men who tried to fondle her when she stabbed Winston.
    Cops also bought the self-defense claim up to a point but after further investigation, they poked holes in that account of the stabbing.
    Brown turned herself in for questioning Tuesday afternoon at the 114th Precinct. She is expected to be arraigned today on manslaughter and weapons charges.
    "We located an eyewitness to the stabbing," Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne said, adding that the witness picked Brown out of a lineup. "As a result, she has been arrested."

    Winston was the father of a baby girl.

    He was living in a homeless shelter and he was trying to turn his life around, his family said.

    Relatives portrayed him as a peaceful person who never should have been killed on his way to get a subway train.

    "When you stab somebody in the heart it should be murder first-degree," said his aunt, Diane Greenspan.

    "I hope justice will be served."
  5. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    It might be interesting to see if Knife Rights keeps track of any of this data or follows specific stories of knives being used for good lawful purposes, similar to how NRA does with firearms.
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    It's amazing to me how often these things turn out so differently from how they initially appear to be. You always have to wait...
  7. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    Raw Prime:


    Thanks for the follow up. Nice work!

    Crafty Dog
  8. Raw_Prime

    Raw_Prime New Member

    /Just another puppy
  9. pguinto

    pguinto New Member

    A True "Knives for Good" Incident

    Outnumbered 5 to 1, it could've gotten ugly either way.

    CTA train robbery victim fights back, stabs two attackers, 5 people charged
    The next day a man, beaten by three men on a CTA Red Line Train, criticizes train conductor's actions.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  10. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

  11. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Good for him, but it looks like the gun passes across his torso just before the robber leaves...that's risky business!
  12. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member


    [TABLE="width: 100%"]


    [TD="class: alt2"]Witnesses gave consistent accounts as to what happened prior to.
    during, and after theinc ident. They alleged that DeAndre Felton and the
    13-year-old male had been with them, as a group, at the Westfield Shopping Town
    Plaza (Meriden Square) on Lewis Avenue prior to the incident. When the mall
    closed, the group gathered in the parking lot of the mall, where DeAndre and the
    13 year old, whom the witnesses claimed were both "high," made statements to the
    effect that they wanted to "look for trouble" and "beat
    someone up."
    According to the witnesses, the group walked across Lewis Avenue and entered the
    north parking lot of Midstate Medical Center. As they began to exit through the
    pedestrian access gate leading to Kensington Avenue, Felton and the 13 year old
    suddenly broke away from the group and began running east along Kensington
    Avenue, where they jumped a male from behind and began assaulting him. The
    witnesses disclaimed any
    prior knowledge that this attack was going to take
    place. Moments later, Felton and the 13 year old ran back to the group, where
    they collapsed from stab wounds. The other male involved in the incident ran
    away in the opposite direction. Based upon the investigative efforts of
    responding officers and detectives, the male who was attacked from behind was
    identified and located. He willingly cooperated with police and rendered a
    statement that was consistent with eyewitness accounts. He surrendered the
    pocketknife that he used in the incident, as well as other evidentiary items. He
    was not aware that he had inflicted a mortal injury to one of his attackers. He
    became visibly shaken and upset when he learned that DeAndre Felton had died.
    identity of this male is not being released at this time as the
    investigation is continuing. [/TD]

  13. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

  14. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

  15. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

  16. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

  17. Pinuti

    Pinuti New Member

    Aside from knives, I love to carry my oxigel (which is a led pencil) as a self defense weapon, I remember my dad used to tell me when he used to live in Guam, he would always have to long sharp pencils in each (or was it one?) pocket. Even to this day as a man in his mid 50's he carries those around or would even uses his keys when needed in a self defense encounter.
  18. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

  19. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

  20. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

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