Knife throwing methods of Kuntao...

Discussion in 'General' started by Ron Kosakowski, Feb 20, 2009.

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  1. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    I did not know where to put this clip. We need a Kuntao section in here. Its the only traditional FMA missing from this forum. Due to the fact Kuntao, Kun Tao, Kuntaw or Kuntau (however you want to spell it) is the oldest Filipino martial art which influenced all the other styles in the Philippines, there should be a place for it here. I guess I got two topics going at once in this section.

    Anyway, check out the knife throwing methods of Kuntao Dumpag. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceDoIzvJvew&feature=channel_page
    This is an area of self defense we worked on for footwork and power in striking believe it or not. Check this out and let me know your thoughts on it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceDoIzvJvew&feature=channel_page
     
  2. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    We're always happy to create a new forum if we see people posting about a subject! Start a few kuntao posts and see what happens.

    _Arnisador
    -FMAT Admin
     
  3. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    I wonder if the Filipino Penchak Silat practitioners would be kind enough to share anything with us on a Silat section. After all, the world champion Silat Team is from the Philippines. I also wonder whom is going to take the late great Hodji Yasser's place as coach? Even though there will NOT ever be anyone that can truly replace him. However, the Navadisha gentlemen have provided us with some info in the past and it is authentic Maranao Penchak Silat, not the made up stuff........
     
  4. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    I would be glad to talk about Kuntao more often. I have spent most of my life in the style and have had many adventures with it.

    I agree with Mike Snow also...there is a lot of Silat in the Philippines as well. Many do not realize all this because finding real Kuntao or Silat in the Philippines is a dangerous trip to take. I know that for a fact from experience. [​IMG]
     
  5. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    :nixweiss:
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2009
  6. tim_stl

    tim_stl Junior Member

    how's that?



    tim
     
  7. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    The elders of Kuntao claim their style is up to 2000 to 2700 years old. Silat being a Chinese word from one of the dialects is as old as the first Chinese settlements in the Philippines. The words, "Eskrima or Arnis" are not even 400 years old...in the Philippines.
     
  8. Navadisha

    Navadisha New Member

    But defining which combination of letters used to "name" something does not define or clarify the historical lineage of what influenced what techniques.
    If one were pinning down what century a term came into usage, that's one thing.
    Stating that a term existed first and therefore must have influenced the techniques of a later sytem, that's a jump not based on anthropoligic analysis.
     
  9. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    I am not claiming to be a scientist in hoplology...I am going on observation and what the elders in Kuntao have told me and I have met a few of them, including my own teacher. I see a lot of similarities in technique and footwork. All styles have to have a root. Eskrima, Arnis and Kali have more than one root but it has some technique here and there lookig similar to Kuntao. All martial arts share pretty much the same idealology due to the fact there are only so many ways to kill, cripple and evade. Which again brings us to that root I was referring to.

    I see a lot of technique in Dumog that looks like Kuntao technique. I have done quite a bit of research in both areas over the years...hence my observations. Plus like I said, what I have been told by Kuntao elders.
     
  10. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    The Human body only moves specific ways.. Irregardless of what you train in and what you are told by "elders" or senior people, a punch is still a punch, a kick is still a kick and grappling or walking are the same irregardless of body shape or culture.. I could state that I am one of the "elders" of Kuntao in the states, yet I don't believe a whole lot of the hype that is coming out about kuntao nowadays.. Some of the so called Kuntaoers are using concepts from different arts and yet calling it Kuntao/Kuntaw/Kuntau. I tell my people that Kuntao is very individualistic and if they see something from another art that fits their needs, take it and incorporate it, yet give respect to the art inwhich you picked it up at and not call it Kuntao.. Kuntao is just an identifier for a fighting system that originated in China, yet if you read Draeger's book on the fighting arts of Indonesia, you will find that the history of Kuntao that is covered in there is split into two different regions of China which are the Fukien/Hokkien (southern) and the Shantung or northern style which emphasis the use of long ranging applications and a lot more use of the legs instead of the southern styles of Kuntao which are more hand oriented due to the general mass of cities and the tight environment in which the people are put together and survive.. Kuntao is just an identifier for a fighting system, not all individuals have the experience of spending years in the system and have knowledge from the source.. But in my years of traveling in the Philippines and experiencing different systems of the FMA, I still take the advice of one of my old military acquaintances which was " check and verify" the source before telling what others say in oral conversation.. Remember a conversation is interpeted differently by the individuals involved, especially in the type written mode..
     
  11. MPC1257

    MPC1257 New Member

    This KunTao discussion is interesting, but I was wondering what people thought of the knife throwing video. I used to "play" with throwing knives when I was much younger, but I just threw the knife overhand at a target.

    Do any of you other FMAers practice throwing knives?
    If you do, do you have particular training methods that are significantly different than
    Ron's?
     
  12. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    My art (Modern Arnis) doesn't teach knife-throwing.
     
  13. sharon.gmc

    sharon.gmc New Member

    nicely put silat1. . .
     
  14. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    I have been in Kuntao since the mid 70's. I have never seen anything like it. At this point, I may be considered one of the elders in Kuntao also.

    I understand where you are coming from...people talk and others listen. How true it is, no one knows till it is written in a book...I guess. And there is a lot of blending going on. I see it all over the place. Very little Kuntao has impressed me out there from what I have seen so far in person, on video, on web sites. The people I have met that I looked up to did impress me though. Witrh their technique and the way they move. So yes, we can say take what people say with a grain of salt...but not everything everyone says. Some do have some truth. How to prove that, I don't know. I know I like what I saw with the elders I met.
     
  15. Navadisha

    Navadisha New Member

     
  16. Navadisha

    Navadisha New Member

    All your statements here can be turned back toward you as well.

    Also, those saying nothing are also saying something. Depends how you choose to interpret it.
     
  17. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Eh?
     
  18. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    I agree...huh?
     
  19. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

     
  20. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    Yes, back to the knife throwing thread.

    Knife throwing in any style is a secondary sub system. In extreme circumstances it can be used. Though, you don't want to throw away a valuable weapon unless you really have to or you have a back up of some sort. If you notice, there is body positioning and foot work in throwing for evasive purposes. Its cool the way its done. Different than just target hitting ewhere they really don't move. Pluse, most target throwers use a softer target. I practice on a hard oak target to develop power.

    I am not sure if I mentioned this earlier, throwing is supposed to help develop power and speed for striking also. I can see that as a logical training method. I always took knife throwing deeper than most did in my Kuntao brotherhood. I find it very relaxing.
     
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