Knife Crime in the U.K.

Discussion in 'FMA in the News' started by arnisador, Jan 16, 2006.

  1. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Is knife crime really getting worse?

    A discussion of so-called "knife culture" in the U.K.

    Exposed: horror of city's knife crimes

    AN ER physician comments on the prevalence of blade wounds; a sidebar lists many related articles (registration may be required).

    Exposed: True scale of knife epidemic

    Similar to the above story, again with a sidebar listing related stories.

    Doctors' kitchen knives ban call

    Physicians seek a ban on certain types of kicthen knives that are frequently used in domestic violence incidents.
  2. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Operation Blunt.

    Stories and web page announcements concerning Operation Blunt, a move to reduce the number of knives carried and hence knife crime:

    Operation Blunt

    Metal detectors used for bus passengers; three arrested.

    Knife Amnesty In Bexley - Operation Blunt

    "A knife amnesty will operate for two weeks in Bexley to encourage those who carry them to break the habit and surrender them to police."

    Knife-crime battle is stepped up

    Operation Noak is part of Operation Blunt and includes knife-surrender bins. "To carry a knife is not cool or glamorous, it is dangerous and a criminal offence."

    Bus passengers to be scanned for knives

    "People using the bus station will pass through the scanner and police officers will be on hand to search people if it is triggered."

    Scanning Britons for knife crime

    More on the use of metal detectors to find knives.

    Cutting out knife crime

  3. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Swords to be banned?


    The story is from last month.
  4. Damien Alexander

    Damien Alexander Junior Member

    oh dear god.
    This a majorly touchy subject for me,bein a redneck an all whilest living in the uk.
    I haven't read all the articles yet,but I just had to point out the "scanning people on buses" garbage.
    Just a couple of weeks ago,they announced that they were putting metal detectors in the tube and bus stations....AGAIN.
    What they were actually doing was taking ONE walk thru metal detector on ONE day,pick random people to walk thru then taking the ONE metal detector to another location the next day!
    And it wasn't even a surprise tactic! They announced in the news what locations they would be in with the ONE detector!
    What a total failure that was.
    As far as banning things,thats the mentality of this "nanny state" we have over here.
    We'll just ban everything in sight,only stop people who don't look like a threat and crucify them for wanting to protect themselves from the people who don't give a toss about the law in the first place.
    What I love is when you mention carrying something for defense,people are conditioned to know you are reffering to a knife.
    I carry a small knife only because you can not get an asp baton here(unless someone wants to send me a care package;-)) or a stun gun or even pepper spray.
    The common excuse is to keep these items out of the blah,blah,blah.
    we all know the criminals are the only ones who have these things.
    2 days ago,a female police recruit was shot responding to a "routine brglary" call. There is no such thing as "routine" when the police are called!
    They make the police complaicent and this is what happens.
    ALL non-lethal items of self-defense are illegal for one reason and one reason only...
    the protection of the police. NOT the citizens.
    The gov't REFUSES to educate people here,they just tell you what's good for you and that's that. Don't question!
    Oh damn...
    my soapbox is cracking!

    I'll go read the articles now:)
  5. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Police knife amensty bins dozens of blades

    (The typo is in the original.) A story on the knife amnesty program's progress:

    A search of that site for 'knife' certainly turns up many crimes.

    Recent BBC News stories:

    Action urged over knife sale ban

    Force crackdown on violent crime

    Knives illegally sold to teenager

    Lives ruined by blight of knives
  6. Damien Alexander

    Damien Alexander Junior Member

    BBC reported today that they are strongly considering putting airport type metal detectors at all tube and train stations in and around london.
    It's still won't be mandatory for all to pass through, The police are profiling.
    And if you refuse,automatic arrest....Of course.
    They are also starting a new "amnesty" run in may as well next month.

    I have 2 questions about this:

    1- Metal detectors in london....does that mean screw the rest of the country? Especially since a recent survey states that the worst hit stations are OUTSIDE of london.


    2- What would be a better alternative?
    One thing parliament LOVES to do is stomp the total dna out of a dead horse! NOTHING THEY DO WORKS!
    So from outsiders points of view,since I am NOT interested in the Brit Law point of view, what would be a better alternative?
    Have the right to defend yourself at ANY cost? Which is severely frowned upon here.
    Have the right to ARM yourself? OTHER than knives and guns!

    what do you think might work?
  7. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Amnesty aims to fight knife crime

  8. Damien Alexander

    Damien Alexander Junior Member

    Once again, waste of time.


    I do appreciate the info you provide here. Some of this we never hear of here inside the UK and some of it is total "bollocks" as the brits love to say.
    But I must ask;
    why is it that no one else has any say on this matter?
    I am always up for a good debate or flat out arguement;-)

    Just a question....


  9. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Please, start a thread in General or Misc. Knife Arts! I too think it bears more discussion.
  10. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Guns (Seen on MT).

    Replica guns seized from collector

  11. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Seen on MT.

    Warning on new anti-knife powers

    New laws to crack down on knife crime could cause increased hostility among young people, the Children's Commissioner for England has said.
  12. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Seen on the main page of Yahoo! tonight.

    Britain grapples with surge of knife attacks

  13. Shonin

    Shonin New Member

    We are all castigating and bemoaning the idiocy of the British Parliment. And truly they deserve it, over this issue anyway. But here is an item closer to home. We have at least one candidate and one side of the isle who look very fondly at this sort of foolishness and wish to emulate it here. (Chicago, New York, and D.C. invented this sort of idiocy re: weapons) True, the other candidate and the other side of the isle may not have the stones to much exert themselves to stop it, but at least they've never actively pursued it.

    Britain, and to some extent a large part of Europe, is proof of the general rule that the issue is not weapons, but control. The Crown (Government, Legislature, whatever) will tell you exactly what is good for you, and what you can own or not own. Instead of the "everything which is not forbidden is permitted" rule, there are large parts of this country where the "everything which is not expressly permitted is forbidden" rule is in full force. These are two mutually exclusive views of government. The former is closer to the intent of the Founders, the latter to -- well, you fill in the blanks.

    For instance, here in DC where citizens have "supposedly" regained the right to keep a handgun in their home, the victory is completely hollow (at least until a lot more lawsuits get won). The City Council has set up a Catch 22 which makes it virtually impossible to actually take possession of a weapon, even though you may, technically, own it -- if you can get it, that is. The issue has never been "safety", it has always been control. And of course on one hand they say things like "only criminals need semi-automatic weapons" -- and on the other, if they really mean that why do they give them to the Police? (The Police, especially here in DC are incredibly hard working and have a thankless job. The garbage that comes out of the mouths of politicians and their lackeys is profoundly insulting to them.)

    Back during the gas lines of the 70's when Congress passed the "right turn on red" law in an attempt to save idleing at stoplights, DC put "No turn on red" signs at over 90% of their intersections. They simply believe that people are too stupid to do things for themselves. Just like now they think people are too stupid to safely own a firearm. Again, the issue was never safety, it was control. Weapoons, and the right to own them, guns, knives, whatever, are symbolic of freedom from that control. That is why the Left gets so apoplexic over their existence.

    Briton, having been pretty successful on banning firearms (at least among the law-abiding) has now started in on edged weapons. This will be duplicated here in the US as soon as can be arranged -- I virtually guarantee it. (And those who trust in the lack of cupidity of their legislators should remember that back when they were debating the 16th Amendment it was proposed to limit the tax rate at 10% (I think). That was shot down as being too ludicrous to waste time on since it was inconceivable that taxes would ever get that high. As Kipling says, "once you pay the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane".

    Our rights to own weapons are looked upon completely as political fodder to be barganed away for larger issues. Truly, as P.J. O'Rourke has written, "a parliment of whores". Think about this next November.
  14. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    Knives in Great Britain vs. France?

    Having just returned from Europe I thought I'd reply with a couple of observations about my experiences there.

    One issue that is probably pertinent is that I was travelling as an obvious middle-aged tourist with a large extended family (grandparents, uncles, aunts, kids, etc.) in upscale, "touristy" areas. The context is obviously different than the situation descibed in #4 below.

    Also keep in mind that my pocket knife is a sub-4" Benchmade AFCK with pocket clip - it's a fairly innocent looking knife, and a folder vs. a fixed blade knife: See #4 below. It came in handy several times while cutting/opening objects for which scissors or similar tools would have been inadequate. In short, my pocket knife looks like and is used as an everyday tool. I carried my knife inside my pocket without using the clip. For airline travel I packed my knife in my check-in luggage.

    I only spent a day in Amsterdam, and did not carry a knife there, so I'll confine my remarks to the Provence region of France and Paris.

    1. I saw French-style knives (the kind with the curved end and ring lock) available for purchase in practically every tourist shop and boutique in Provence. These ranged from ordinary to high-end knives, and were in some cases twice the size of my folder. There did not seem to be any prohibition against buying and carrying these knives, although I could be mistaken about the carry issue.

    2. I was in Paris around Bastille Day (July 14th). Security was not an issue even though I was scanned at several tourist areas (e.g. the Tour Eiffel) during my stay in Paris. Upon reflection these scans seemed aimed against exposive devices as they were directed towards bags, carry-ons, etc. - the scans did not pick up the metal in my small knife any more than they would have picked up a camera, etc. Police presence was strong with several two-five person teams carrying automatic machine guns walking through the crowds at 5-10 minute intervals.

    3. The only issue I had was at the Musee d'Orsay when I placed my knife on top of my wallet and keys prior to going throught a metal detector. (I had forgotten to leave my knife at home and admitted that it was brainless to bring one to a museum.) The security guard asked for a supervisor and I was escorted to the coat check room and given a ticket to retrieve my knife after my visit. When I returned to the coat check room it was hanging up in plain sight in a plastic bag. This seemed a reasonable reaction to the problem and did not seem untypical.

    4. While reading the Herald-Tribune in my hotel lobby I came across an article from the U.K. that described rising knife violence against poor British youth by poor British youth (i.e. gang violence aimed at innocent kids). The article described how some poor kids who felt threatened by criminal elements in their neighborhoods were increasingly carring knives for self-protection. Most knives carried, according to the article, with kitchen knives. One theme of the article was that, whereas several MP's were urging arrest and incarceration for the mere possession of knives by anyone, other community leaders criticized this "solution" to the problem as a knee-jerk reaction after several years of inaction and ineffectial leadership re. the issues of poverty and unemployment that effect these poor neighborhoods.


  15. LabanB

    LabanB Junior Member

    Media frenzy

    Hi Steve,

    That seems a reasonable view of the world over here in Europe.

    One issue though: (i.e. gang violence aimed at innocent kids).

    A number of the "innocent" kids have later been shown to be part of an opposing gang, dealing in drugs etc. Time and again the story has hit the news "innocent victim of knife crime", a couple of days later we get "innocent victim was part of/related to violent gang". Its generally, although not exclusively gang member to gang member violence we are seeing here.

    The French have always taken a more reasonable view of the world, and certainly their leaders (ignore them until they do something totally unacceptable, then trash the place!).

  16. Damien Alexander

    Damien Alexander Junior Member

    I train a few LEO's here in london and they all have said that
    the "sudden upsurge" of knife crime is actually bogus in terms of statistics.
    Knife has stayed the same for about 10 years now,the only difference is the age of the offenders.
    The media is playing it up like some kind of epidemic.
    Also,they refuse to admit that education is the key.
    Not the moronic view of "let's ban everything in sight" approach.
    They seem to think if they keep making it front page news everyday, then people will get scared and turn to poppa parliament for guidance.
    It hasn't worked for 100 years,it ain't gonna work now.

    But that the *stiff upper lip* for you :/
  17. Damien Alexander

    Damien Alexander Junior Member

    I train a few LEO's here in london and they all have said that
    the "sudden upsurge" of knife crime is actually bogus in terms of statistics.
    Knife crime has stayed the same for about 10 years now,the only difference is the age of the offenders.
    The media is playing it up like some kind of epidemic.
    Also,they refuse to admit that education is the key.
    Not the moronic view of the "let's ban everything in sight" approach.
    They seem to think if they keep making it front page news everyday, then people will get scared and turn to poppa parliament for guidance.
    It hasn't worked for 100 years,it ain't gonna work now.

    But that the *stiff upper lip* for you :/
  18. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Seen on MT (2006 story).

    Lethal Star Trek blade seized in knives amnesty


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  19. It's the U.K all over.

    Check out the Policeman's expression , the adjectives "horrifying: "shocked" etc, etc.

    Now, if some guy intent with bad intentions decided to take that outside don't you think somebody would see him??? Isn't it a bit conspicuous?!!

    I'd be more afraid of a concealed kitchen knife. You'd have to be pretty skilled to land with that beast above too. I like it!
  20. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    That's what struck me. Here it'd be played as a joke.

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