Kicking in FMA

Discussion in 'General' started by eskrimakaliarnis.com, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. I've been wondering of late - who uses kicks when they are holding a weapon?

    I ask because I have seen quite a few school logos for FMA now which a guy doing a kick. The recent photos posted on here (Dog brothers and the Kempo one) also show people doing kicks.

    Also, I saw a Sword documentary recently that had illustrations from a German Medevil sword manual and kicks were shown in that.

    Here's a similar image that I just dug up that I like:

    [​IMG]

    Source : http://www.thehaca.com/

    That kind of kick I can understand. It looks very similar to a wing-chun kick. The kicker has controlled his attacker well and is well balanced himeself. (Why he wants to kick with the sword at his chest is another question perhaps).

    My thinking is that if someone is kicking it is possible to take their balance or strike their leg / torso or a combination of the two. A kick with a stick strike / defense executed at the same time seems an unlikely if not impossible move to pull of so throwing the kick leaves you open - even for a split second.

    So therefore is it rash to assume that a kick is unsuitable in open range when both proponents are holding weapons?

    Over to you!

    Simon.
     
  2. Some more research:

    The Use of Kicks in Swordfighting:
    A Brief Exploration
    Gene P. Tausk


    http://www.thehaca.com/essays/kicks.htm

    A rather long essay if anybodies got the time. Here's some things I like:

    That's what I was thinking before I read the article. A bit of background - the guy studied TKD and then Western Swordsmanship.

    This I can use:

    Distract and harass. Nice. Go for a kick and then bring the "Primary" weapon into play. I guess the trouble with that is our old friend gravity. Often against a skilled opponent they will read the shifting of weight to throw a kick before it is launched.


    I found that to be a really interesting essay and has got me thinking again. Would love to hear anybodies experience of kicks in sparring.

    Simon.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2008
  3. blindside

    blindside student

    One of the more surprising things I have seen in a stick match was a spinning outward crescent kick by a TKDer that landed full on.

    I've landed sidekicks in a desperate attempt to hold a guy off of my while I was trying to recover my dropped stick/knife. Not something I really wanted to do, just something that happened.

    I do like the incorporation of the round kick into the fight that I first saw on a Dog Brothers vid, I've landed that a couple times in matches as well, more frequently on the leg than on the body.

    http://dogbrothersvideo.com/dbmaa05.wmv
     
  4. The article advises that three kicks can be used in certain situations:

    1) Front thrust kick
    2) Round Kick
    3) Side Kick

    And points that the lower the target the better. Common sense stuff I guess.

    Wow, that crescent kick must have been great to see.

    Thanks for the video. I enjoyed that. I think the guy was pretty talented who pulled it off as it was quick and the 1st one right when the guy was trying to clinch or something.

    I guess everything has it's time and place - it's just making it work for you.
     
  5. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    A front thrust/push kick is the only one that works reliably for me with sticks; with knives I can also land a Thai-style roundhouse on occasion
     
  6. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Kicks fit...it just depends on how much you work them in unison with weapons play. I have seen some FMA purists who believe that nothing should be used in the fray except the weapon. I wholeheartedly disagree....I personally feel that everything goes....kicks. punches, elbows knees, head butts etc...the weapon is but an extension and if I am in any range to use anything I will. A lot also has to be said for the footwear. A pair of steel toe boots or square toes work well...start kicking a guy wit those and I guarantee u it stops a fight. I wear the hi-tech mesh boots with steel toes ..light yet nasty. MY .02 centavos

    PG Mike
     
  7. Shaun

    Shaun New Member

    IMHO kicking works as an offensive or defensive tool when holding a baston. It would a spontaneous, if the opportunity arose type of technique,as opposed to a primary tool.
     
  8. malcolmk

    malcolmk Member

    kicks and sweeps are present in Balintawak.
     
  9. blindside

    blindside student

    The TKD guy had just dropped in on us for one class, but we knew him pretty well from outside of class, and he is a scrappy guy and wanted to try some stick sparring. He was getting tooled in the stick match, so he went back to what he knew best. He ducked away and came back with that crescent kick, and got a big "oooooh" from the rest of us as he sent Nate into the nearby wall. I think we may have been taping it, I'll see if I can't dig up footage and get it converted, it would make a nice piece on the website.
     
  10. Robert Klampfer

    Robert Klampfer New Member

    For clarity: low line kicks, sweeps and trips.:kicknuts:
    Robert
     
  11. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    yeah, those low line kicks to the knees and stomping on the feet while climbing up the legs make good kicking applications.. I use one called the gas pedal, kinda like a stop hit to the knee when the guy is coming in, locks up the whole body and the head comes to you for teeing off on..

    Gotta love those sneaky trangkadas, especially when wearing boots with steel toes and panama cleat soles..:EvilGrin::augen22:


     
  12. Doc

    Doc New Member

    There is definitely kicking in what I do! My primary focus is Panantukan, and Panajakman is the kicking "sub-art" within it. It is a close-range and low-line method. It doesn't make sense to try and kick someone in the head while they are holding a weapon (especially a sharp one!), but it works great as a distraction or stance/balance disruption on the low-line. Panantukan is "blade awareness" boxing, so almost everything done empty-hand can be done with a knife in reverse grip....including the low-line kicking. I also do "stick boxing" as an extension of my Panantukan, which uses a shorter stick and works in closer (a lot like Serrada). Therefore kicks come in handy then as well.

    The Dog Brothers incorporate some Krabi Krabong methods in their technique and so use kicks similar to Muay Thai with their stick fighting. A strong round kick to the thigh follows a backhand #2 strike with the stick quite naturally!

    Keith
     
  13. Buwaya

    Buwaya Senior Member

    Yup. I've seen a spinning back kick pull off a knife disarm in a real contact match with sharkee's. I personally wouldn't rely on it myself, but pretty cool.
     
  14. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    I'm in favor of low line kicks to the knee or shin. It tends to catch people by surprise.
     
  15. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    I'd say, just like with everything else, it's a matter of how and when you apply your kicks. They definitely have their place, and I would certainly not want to renounce on any of my available options, regardless of whether I am going to use them or not in a particular situation.
     
  16. Ryno

    Ryno New Member

    I agree, they have their place. I stick-fought in Vegas a few years back, where my opponent would hold his stick on rear-side, bringing his live hand into play on the lead, and would try to press in, boxing and trapping. Of course I couldn't let him bully me, so I also went to a left lead, stick in rear/right.

    When he started pressing in, I stuck him with a quick jab, postured up and looked him in the eyes like I was going to throw a big number one... (Maestro Elmer Ybanez trick) Then hit him with a Thai-style roundkick, shin to lower thigh as his guard was up to defend against the stick. He was totally rooted when I launched, and when the kick landed it completely buckled his leg and he went straight down in a heap.

    It must have looked really bad because my opponents' family, who were in the front rows, were screaming "He broke his knee!"

    I was thinking like a kickboxing match, pondering "I hit him in the thigh, not the knee. What are they yelling about?" while my opponent was still down on the floor. That's when my teammates reminded me that it was continuos stickfighting and that the ref had not called a stop. I think it went something like "Hit him!!!!"

    So needless to say, I agree that kicks have their place, as does boxing, elbows, knees, takedowns, etc. You just have to understand that you can't just force an issue, such as telegraphing a kick from long range. It takes proper setup to bring it into play. This can be via a specific tactic, or could mean that kicks are just techniques of opportunity. I use a few tactical setups to bring them into play, but also use them opportunistically on occasion.
     
  17. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    Kicks I definitely am comfortable with... Like that first video in where Krabi Krabong elements is used...

    Examples are like when you give a No.1 or No. 2 strike then follow it with a Thai kick or a push kick after an x-block, or whatever combination you can come up with...

    Kicks are great when the oppurtunity arises in a fight...
     
  18. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I'm comfortable with all the elements of this--my Thai roundhouse kick is good--but for some reason I can rarely pull this off! I just can't work any kick other than the front push kick into my stickfighting on a regular (as opposed to occasional) basis. I think I hesitate too much because I know how I'd counter it if it were done to me, so unless I get a #2 stand-off and grab the arm with my live hand I just don't try it. I do get the Thai kick in during knifework.
     
  19. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    Whatever really works and what you're comfortable with... It's a good move especially when you have double sticks and do a 1 and 2 strike then follow it up with a Thai kick if the opponent is not suspecting it... In a match, if one has a strong enough Thai kick, it can easily break their ribs or their thigh bone...

    But I wouldn't advice on giving all you got in the kick or you might end up on the ground if the opponent blocks it and counters unless you know how/willing to sprawl and get into a grappling match...
     
  20. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    If I may add...while kicking is a good thing one better make damn sure he is controlling the timing, and is dead on in his entry. If your off by the slightest a good cagey stickman will range out and seriously blast those legs. In Ilustrisimo we look for that....bait the opponent in and then lutang and POW on any appendage that happens to flow into the medio. Just a word of caution.....but I do agree kicks are a good thing to have when the time is right.
     

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