Kali Tudo (tm)

Discussion in 'Dog Brothers Martial Arts' started by Crafty Dog, Apr 21, 2009.

  1. Pinuti

    Pinuti New Member

    Yes you have, however i"ve noticed that your styles and the styles you have practiced with in the past are more modern variations of kali with a lot of major modifications in them such as inosantao kali which gets its empty hands mostly from boxing and silat rather than the fma itself.


    I like your way of thinking and trying to take kali away from the mcdojo life like many karate and taekwondo studios have done.

    But what mostly concerns me is how effective the empty fma hands are and how it is compared to martial arts like silat or muay thai.

    to save time for you to read this comment, I"ve posted a link here to let you know where i'm coming from

    http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?10821-The-empty-hands-of-FMA&highlight=empty+hands
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  2. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    "inosantao kali which gets its empty hands mostly from boxing and silat rather than the fma itself."

    Though I am a very poor student in these things, I would quibble with your articulation here. FWIW IMHO Guro Inosanto's Lacoste-Inosanto Kali is not mostly boxing and silat, though silat has its influence, it IS Kali as he received it from Manong Lacoste-- which has considerable Italian Espada y Daga in it (Inosanto is an Italian name by the way). With regard to boxing, some serious students of these things believe that there was considerable influence on boxing from FMA going back to the US colonization in the aftermath of the Spanish-American War and the introduction of boxing by the US Army-- which to practice the Filipinos had to drop much of their repertoire but influenced it with the panantukan movement. Some argue that the hook punch itself came from the Army boxing program's interactions with the Filipinos-- the old palms up style of the John L. Sullivan did not survive the knife based movements of the Filipinos. Certainly Filipino boxers such as Pancho Villa, Flash Elorde, Cerefino Garcia and others left their mark in the '20s and '30s.

    The Inosanto concept of the Majapahit Empire (GT Gaje of Pekiti Tirsia deserves credit here too) is worth noting-- the ME being southeast Asia and the notion being the the arts of the various parts of the ME had "common thread" with each other in a way that arts from outside SE Asia did not. Amongst these SE Asian Arts would be Krabi Krabong, Lerd Rit, and related arts-- which are the origin of the combat ring sport of Muay Thai.

    In other words, my assertion is that to the extent that "Kali Tudo" is not FMA, it is Majapahit Empire.

    IMHO the panantukan of Inosanto-Lacoste Kali IS formidable. The reason so few have really grasped this is a blend of the following:

    a) Once people have boxing as their striking foundation, it can be fiendishly challenging to morph into panantukan;
    b) people will do in the adrenal state what they have tested in the adrenal state and most people have not adrenalized their FMA skills with or without weapons;
    c) fighting single stick is not necessarily a sufficient adrenal base for panantukan. IMHO double stick is much, much better-- at least in my experience.
     
  3. Pinuti

    Pinuti New Member

    I wouldn't hold dan inosantao credible to speak about Filipino history, when hes more american than Filipino. Not to mention that some of the things he says about the history of fma isn't true and in some cases, offensive.
     
  4. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    Last edited: Jun 23, 2014
  5. Pinuti

    Pinuti New Member

    Well, some of the things that dan has said of what influence fma isn't all that true. An example is in this video I saw back in youtube of him explaining that mexico has an influence on fma which I call complete bs. Its like me saying that dmog/buno has a major influence on Brazillian ju jitsu.
     
  6. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    The notion is that Spain's only major port on the west coast of Latin America was Acapulco (and a fine harbor it is!) and that Mexican sailors wound in the the RP? By all means feel free to disagree, but why is this idea "offensive"?
     
  7. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    Though missing in a number of important variables, here is a basic use of the Dracula being used with some success. Perhaps my years of advocacy are beginning to take root!
    http://rutube.ru/video/ac6e6149aed45fa8c490b7ccf3757205/…
    PS: We are having an in depth discussion on the DBMA Association of what he did right and what he could do differently to improve his results to a more definitive win.
     
  8. Cochise

    Cochise Member

  9. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

  10. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    In DBMA we step through instead of shuffle stepping a lot. I know that some people doubt this because they do not see it much in modern boxing. Perhaps this clip will help them reconsider:

     

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