Kali Pekiti-Tirsia or Dan Inosanto

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by ochezburgess, Jul 4, 2011.

  1. tanod

    tanod New Member

    since you're still a beginner, go try them all, then decide which one is right for you. they're all good.
  2. Epa

    Epa Member

    First of all, let me say that your overall point is correct and well stated. Anyone who is considering training under an Inosanto instructor should consider this. Without a standardized curriculum you have a lot variability in what you might learn from one instructor to the next. There are a number of high level of instructors under Guro Dan who have developed their own set curriculum for his FMA system, I believe some have even laid their curriculum out on DVD. However, there are a lot that do not use a curriculum. This can be a good or a bad thing because Guro Dan's approach and system is so open ended that in trying to codify it to much during instruction, there is a risk that you will lose a certain degree of adaptability and freedom in the practitioner.

    What I mean is, a practitioner might focus on the "official" material to the exclusion of experimentation and adapting the system to themselves. Since you can't capture everything in a curriculum, the "official" material will always have certain gaps. A good curriculum designer/teacher will appreciate this and make their more advanced students aware of the gaps and how to fill them in. As I recall you are a college professor, so I'm sure you experience a similar challenge trying to organize material for your courses. For your 100 and 200 level courses the straight curriculum is the best approach, but for your graduate students I would assume there is more self directed learning and less of a set curriculum. I think that same approach would apply to teaching Guro Dan's system. In my opinion, the best approach to look for is someone with a curriculum that guides the newer student through a clear progression, but opens up the progression in the later stages to encourage critical thinking and the development of a personal system.

    As a nit picking point on your examples, you note that Ilustrismo, Villabrille-Largusa and Lacoste's system have different rules than say Balintawak. These were poor examples because each of those systems has a sub-component known as De Cuerdes, which is functionally quite similar to Balinatwak (note I am referring to the version of Ilustrisimo Guro Dan learned from Regino and not the Kali Ilustrisimo that comes from Antonio Ilustrisimo). In fact, Guro Dan uses drills from those systems as he teaches the Balintawak portion of seminars now because there is so much overlap. Personally, I think the better unit of analysis for the systems you are talking about is at the drill/technique level as opposed to the system level. You need to keep in mind that most of the systems you cited are composite systems in their own right. The Lacoste system blends systems from across the PI and thus would be hard to pin down to a single concept of range, timing, stick length, footwork, etc. I'll cut off my nerdy historical interlude now because your main point was dead on.
  3. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    I understand what you are referring to and perhaps I should have explained my thought process more fully. I was referring to things more from a conceptual level. E.g., how to we move in response to a specific situation? Are we trying to get outside to the flank? Do we stay in front? From my limited experience, there are stark differences in approach and overall philosophy, even though there are certainly similarities in drills and other aspects of the art.

    Does that make more sense, or am I still not being clear?

    Thanks for the detailed response by the way!

  4. billc

    billc New Member

    Keep in mind, you may not have a knife on you all the time, but criminals who want something from you will be armed or will come at you in a small group. Individual criminals rarely attempt to rob a person without a weapon of some sort. The two cheapest weapons available, and the ones that won't get you a felony just for having them on you, are sticks and knives. Being familiar with how sticks and knives are used, and how to avoid them when you don't have a weapon on you is a critical self-defense skill. Almost any FMA will teach you these basics and will have an empty hand component to it as well. I suggest you watch the crime news in your area, and see how what criminals use to do their work. I have noticed that lone criminals will almost always use a weapon, and small groups of un-armed attackers will also be a threat.

    For example, here in chicago two girls were coming home late at night when they were attacked by a drug addict. He initiated the attack by hitting them both repeatedly in the head with a baseball bat. One of the girls, an exchange student from Ireland, didn't come out of her coma. Another incident here in chicago, a small group of men, 3-4 were robbing businessmen late at night. They didn't have weapons, but beat them to the ground with their fists, and took their belongings. They were run off on one attack when they tried to rob a bicycle messenger. He used his bike lock as a club and started wacking them, they ran off.

    A guy I train with here in the FMA in Dekiti Tirsia Sirada Kali, under instructor John Bednarski who trained with Leo Gaje's uncle, Nene Tortal, was approached by 3-4 guys coming home from work one night. He had cut through an alley to get to his car and they tried to corner him. He had a small folding knife on him that he drew and kept behind his leg. They didn't see it at first, but as they were trying to escalate the verbal confrontation into a physical attack, they noticed the knife and his readiness to use it. They all took off.

    Training to use a weapon is a large part of the FMA, but also dealing empty handed against a weapon is another large part of the FMA. Since your attackers will almost always be armed, the FMA are a great choice of arts to be studying.

    In my experience, some martial artists approach the arts in a backwards manner. They do an empty hand art and use the FMA to augment that art. I really think for self-defense, you should concentrate on the FMA and augment that with an empty hand art. Spending more time with weapons training seems to be a more effeicient use of time.

    Good luck in your search.
  5. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    Great stuff! And to the OP, you are going to find a very sophisticated and effective knife curriculum in either Lacoste-Inosanto Kali or Pekiti Tirsia Kali.

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