Kali Ilustrisimo question

Discussion in 'Kali Ilustrisimo' started by jwinch2, Jan 29, 2010.

  1. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    Can someone give me a breakdown of all of the various camps related to Ilustrisimo?

    For example, I see references and discussions of the following regularly but am not sure what separates them. Perhaps it just comes down to camps with different takes on the art led by various senior students of Antonio Ilustrisimo? That would make the most sense at first glance and would certainly have precedent from other arts but I could be wrong so why not ask?

    Bahad Zu'bu
    Kali Ilustrisimo
    Kalis Ilustrisimo
    Bakbakan Kali
    Ilustrisimo Eskrima

    Cheers!
     
  2. There's an excellent thread somewhere on this forum which deals with this exact topic. I've looked but I can't find it - it's a few years old.

    IMHO the only thing that separates them is they are expressions of Kali Ilustrisimo by his senior students. I've heard that Tatang Ilustrisimo did not name his system or have any great interest in teaching either.

    Simon.
     
  3. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    Thanks! I did a search but must not have used the correct query. Cheers!
     
  4. You're most welcome :)

    I couldn't remember either so went through the 5 pages of this forum. It's a good thread that and worthy of a re-visit.
     
  5. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    Here's how I see it,

    Bahad Zu'bu is mang Yuli Romo's art/system and according to him uses 3% of Ilustrisimo concepts/techniques.

    Kali Ilustrisimo is a term used by mang Topher Ricketts of San Diego, mang Norman Suanico of Canada, and mang Robert (who heads Olistrisimo Eskrima). Both mang Norman and mang Robert lived with Tata Tonio.

    Kalis Ilustrisimo meaning Sword of Ilustrisimo is used by the K.I.R.O. group headed by mang Tony Diego who was the premier student of Tata Tonio. Some of his students who now head their own groups use either kali or kalis whenever and wherever they see it fits or for whatever suits their purpose.
    Mang Romy Macapagal, considered the archivist of Ilustrisimo system also uses the term/name Kalis Ilustrisimo.

    Bakbakan Kali is headed by Mr. Rey Galang who has a totally different approach to training, enumeration of Ilustrisimo concepts, and execution of techniques.

    Ilustrisimo Escrima is more of a movement, a homage to the original teachings, methods, and practices of Tata Tonio. An attitude of giving primal importance to the roots more so than the flowers and branches.

    Btw, the original Ilustrisimo family art has a name, just ask your elders if you want to know what it was.

    I recommend to anyone who is interested in learning Ilustrisimo to study with all of these groups if you have the opportunity to do so.
     
  6. I must admit I am puzzled by this. Master Yuli (he does not like "Mang") met Tatang 3 months after GM Tony. He trained with Tatang until he passed, some 20 years or so later. Why would he then use 3% of an art he has spent 33% of his life studying?

    Anyway, he is coming round for lunch tomorrow so I might raise it but having been a student for the past 3 years I think I know the answer ;)
     
  7. An article that might be pertinent to the discussion:

    Link to this article and others:

    http://www.yellowbamboohk.com/Arnis/arnisarticles/Styles in Kalis Ilustrisimo.html
     
  8. An article that might be pertinent to the discussion:

    Link to this article and others:

    http://www.yellowbamboohk.com/Arnis/arnisarticles/Styles in Kalis Ilustrisimo.html
     
  9. Damn Pinoy internet :(

    Anybody else have slow-loading problems with the site today or is it just from here?
     
  10. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    As a tagalog, we ordinarily affix mang before the name of the person as a sign of respect. Addressing a guy as mang is a sign of respect, ale is not.
    Here's a link to an interview of mang Yuli by Celestino C. Macachor published by FMA Digest..

    http://www.defensivecombat.com/files/Vol2_No4.pdf

    Tell me if I misconstrued the 3% thingy.
     
  11. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    I really like what I've seen of Kali Illustrisimo.

    Just curious about this statement because I've seen this upward cutting stroke a lot in Pekiti Tirsia Kali and San Miguel Eskrima.

    I was taught that "sungkite" means "hook" as in a hook you can hang clothes on. The false edge that you sometimes find on pinutes takes advantage of this "hooking" kind of strike that often comes up under someone's peripheral vision.

    Best,

    Steve
     
  12. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

  13. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

  14. Master Yuli tells me that he is going to live for 500 years...whilst I'd love that to be the case you can see my point. He is pretty notorious for his dislike of interviews and was probably having a laugh hoping the gullible believe him perhaps....

    Anybody who has stood in front of Master Yuli and has knowledge of the Ilustrisimo system will be able to judge for themselves about the "3%". Jeez...i'd love to know what the other 97 % consisted of then.

    I could also quote the Bahad Zu'bu website which acknowledges BZ is "Ilustrisimo at core" but then again - I wrote it ;)

    What are you going to believe? An interview, a website or the movements you can see (or can't in some places!) with your own eyes...
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2010
  15. Here is a clip of our "3%" ;)

    [yt]mN5QeWauoBk[/yt]
     
  16. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    Simon, I will always believe mang Yuli whether he says it in interviews or in person. I know him well enough to be able to read between the lines or decipher the truth between the lies err.. conflicting statements.:biggrinboAbout the 97%, you have to ask to know or to even see them. If you won't ask, you might not notice them ever even when they're performed in front of you. You might think they are simply variants of estrella, pluma, and cadena real done in pasa/para recta fashion.
     
  17. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    I like this drill.. I use it as a segue from retirada to tatlong bao. The recta cruzada mas solo seguida is the common theme. Of course a repique o de cadena should be grabbed once an opportune cerrada is presented to you. That's classic Ilustrisimo drill.
     
  18. Yep, me too. I'm sorry for being so confrontational but if I left it unchallenged maybe people will really believe there's only 3% of Tatang's art in BZ.....

    Speaking with GM Yuli today he re-iterated that Tatang's mindset, his warrior spirit and fighting tactics pervade all he does. That some of the weapons in BZ may be different (like the bio-stick for example) but the use and application comes from Tatang's movements and way of fighting.

    Going back to the interview it reads like a question I asked a Yaw Yan fighter when I heard they have 40 different kicks...I expressed surprise at the amount and he said "Yes, but you only need to master 3-4". That in essence is what I believe Master Yuli is saying there. It shows how amazing the Ilustrisimo system is if you can take a small part, master it and have enough tools to fight with.

    I'm glad you like the video but as you know one of the main things GM Yuli has changed is the terminology. I can just about follow your commentary but he found that people were hung-up remembering the names and not mastering the movements.

    I guess every subsequent generation of instructors seeks to refine and polish what they've learnt - unless of course you are "Preservationist" as was discussed on a recent thread on this forum. So now, he is focusing on "intuitive" drills which flow rather than set up routines. Similarly, the Abecedaro he sometimes teaches as 5 strikes as opposed to 12. Where ever possible he refines even that to just "forehand and backhand".

    He often likens it to playing badminton or tennis. You don't need to learn forms to play badminton or the names of the shots. You practice by playing.

    Going back to the OP and for clarification of the Bahad Zu'bu system it has seen three distinct phases:

    1) Bahad Zu'bu Kali Ilustrismo
    2) Bahad Zu'bu Mangtas Baraw (rough translation "The best of the blade")
    3) Bahad Zu'bu Bungga Santaku (rough translation "Unique Strikes")

    As you know, GM Yuli is not one to rest on his laurels and is adapting his system to the various requirements of his students. For example, we have just moved into the "Bungga Santaku" era which has been developed due to his experience of teaching a close-protection unit.

    Whatever the name he calls it the basics remain the same. The things that differ slightly between all 3 are something he calls "Tactical Play". As noted earlier, when you're teaching government agents who don't care if they use lethal force the focus of the art will change as opposed to teaching civilians / police-officers even.

    Anyway, after a great day of catching up and practice GM Yuli will be heading to Luneta tomorrow to see GM Tony and the rest of the Ilustrisimo family.

    I really recommend people do try to catch any of the 1st / 2nd generation Ilustrimo instructors and see for themselves. Sure, there are few differences but the essence of the art is amazing.

    Simon.
     
  19. RETIRADA

    RETIRADA New Member

    I am on the same page, taking a small part of the KI system and working on it consistently to make it functional. I am a strong believer in developing a solid foundation through 'mastery' of the basics/fundamentals.

    I have always recommended to all KI enthusiasts to also learn direct from the 1st and 2nd generation students of Tatang as was mentioned in previous post. I am very grateful to Tony, Rey, the late Edgar, Norman, Tom, Yuli, Arnold for the introduction to the KI system.

    The 3rd Annual Kalis Ilustrisimo Repeticion Orihinal seminar is planned for June in the Vancouver area. Details to follow soon.

    Take care all.
     

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